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Santiago Rojas, Josephino Ramirez, Catalina Robles; Juan Montes; Benito Espino v. Marko Zaninovich


May 16, 2011


5/3/2011 Woolfson, Aaron


San Francisco, California

Tuesday, May 3, 2011

Reported by: ELAINE A. DELLINGES, RPR CSR No. 5049


SANTIAGO ROJAS, JOSEPHINO RAMIREZ, CATALINA ROBLES; JUAN MONTES; BENITO ESPINO; GUILLERMINA PEREZ; on behalf of themselves and a class of Case No. others similarly situated, Plaintiffs, v. MARKO ZANINOVICH, INC., SUNVIEW VINEYARDS OF CALIFORNIA, INC., a California corporation; and DOES 1 to 20, inclusive, Defendants.

1:09-CV-00705-A WI-SMS

Videotaped Deposition of AARON WOOLFSON, taken on behalf of Defendants, at One Market Street, Spear Tower, 28th Floor, San Francisco, California, beginning at 10:21 a.m. and ending at 5:37 p.m., on Tuesday, May 3, 2011, before ELAINE A. DELLINGES, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 5049.






Exhibit 1 Notice of Taking Deposition 19 of Aaron Woolfson and Request to Produce Documents at Deposition Exhibit 2 A list of codes stamped 21 Confidential Exhibit 3 Five invoices to Mallison & 23 Martinez (Sunview) from TelSwitchInc.

Exhibit 4 Expert Report of Aaron 38 Woolfson Exhibit 5 A spreadsheet titled Example 109 1 Exhibit 6 A spreadsheet titled Example 113 2 Exhibit 7 A spreadsheet titled Example 122 3 Part II Exhibit 8 A list handwritten by the 175 witness on a green Starbucks paper



Exhibit 9 An exhibit which was marked 178 as Exhibit 27 in the deposition of Mr. Dan Gallegos on behalf of Sunview Vineyards Exhibit 10 Handwritten notes made by the 211 witness Exhibit 11 A list for the SQL 212

** implementation (to be sent to the court reporter.)


Page Line 163 20

** Exhibit retained by the witness and to be marked when it is sent to the court reporter.

San Francisco, California, Tuesday, May 3, 2011 10:21 a.m. - 5:37 p.m.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. Here begins media No. 1 of the deposition of Aaron Woolfson in the matter of Santiago Rojas versus Marko Zaninovich, et al. This case is in the U.S. District Court, Eastern District of California, Fresno Division, and the case number is 1189077. Today's date is May 3, 2011, and the time is 10:21 a.m.

This deposition is taking place at One Market Street, Spear Tower, 28th Floor, in San Francisco, California, and it's being taken on behalf of the plaintiffs. The videographer is Bart Reis appearing on behalf of Wood & Randall.

All present, take notice that as a part of the videotaping of this deposition very sensitive high-quality microphones are being used. If anyone present wishes to make a statement or have a conversation off the record, they should state that they are going off the record and gain concurrence from all parties. The videographer will then stop recording. All recorded comments made by anyone present during this deposition will be assumed on the record and will be transcribed.

Would counsel please identify yourself and state whom you represent.

MR. MOLLAND: Michael Molland for defendants.

MR. MALLISON: Stan Mallison on behalf of plaintiffs.

MR. MOLLAND: And with me in the room there are some representatives of my client. Would you identify yourselves, please.

MR. SWANSON: I'm Dale Swanson from Sunview Vineyards.

MR. STEPHENS: Kent Stephens; Marko Zaninovich, Incorporated.

MR. GALLEGOS: Dan Gallegos; Sunview Vineyards.

MR. MOLLAND: Okay. Swear the witness and we'll get rolling.

AARON WOOLFSON, having been first duly affirmed, was examined and testified as follows:


Q Please state your full name and place of business for the record, please.

A My name is Aaron Woolfson, A-a-r-o-n W-o-o-l-f-s-o-n. I'm with TelSwitch, Inc. My principal location of business is at 343 East Main Street, Suite 319, Stockton, California 95202.

Q Okay. What's your business that you do there? You said you have a principal place of business. What do you do in your business?

A That's a pretty broad question.

Q Okay. Do the best you can.

A Okay. TelSwitch, Inc. primarily builds, designs and develops large-scale databases for the collection and dissemination and analysis of huge sets of data. I've been doing this for 20 years of which 16 years of those have been under the auspices of TelSwitch, Inc., which is my company.

Q What do you do for TelSwitch?

A I am the founder and chief data architect.

Q Is your title Founder and Chief Data Architect?

A I don't have a title imprinted on my business card, but I have always expressed myself to be founder and chief data architect.

Q Okay.

How many people work for TelSwitch, the company you founded?

A We have four contractors and three employees, including myself.

Q Okay. Who are the employees?

A My mother, Betty Woolfson, is my cash flow manager; Michael Foster, who is a electronic design extraordinaire; and myself.

Q Okay. So basically you've got three employees including you, and one's your mom; right?

A Yes.

Q Has TelSwitch ever had any other employees besides you, your mom, and Mr. Foerster -- or Foster?

A We've had several employees over the years. I'm not -- I'm not sure they're relevant in any manner to what I've been retained as an expert to do.

Q They may or may not be.

A We've had other employees, yes.

Q I don't know. That's why I'm asking the questions.

Who has worked for you besides those two people?

A There has been a gentleman named Chris Hall.

Q Okay. What's Chris done?

A Chris has done SQL database implementations with me.

Q Anybody else?

A There's been a gentleman named Chris Searls.

Q Okay. What's he done?

A Chris Searls is just a general administrative individual with no particular title.

Q Okay. Anybody else?

A Laurie Minouei, L-a-u-r-i-e M-i-n-o-u-e-i. She was my assistant, clerical.

Q Anybody else?

A Jerry Merkt.

Q What did Jerry do?

A Jerry was a business strategist.

Q Okay.

And all these people were employees of TelSwitch?

A In some form as I would consider employees, yes.

Q Okay. Anybody else you can recall?

A There were a couple of people that I just I don't remember over the years that have worked for us. I don't remember their last names.

Q Okay.

A Kendra, and I don't remember the other two or three people's names.

Q Okay. So you worked or founded and your chief business is at TelSwitch. Do you have any other businesses, anything else you do to make some money besides testify as an expert witness or consultant in litigation?

A My full or fairly full and extensive experiences in both consulting and private industry and software development is as listed on my CV, which is on the USB stick that I provided you today.

Q Okay. So basically you do some consulting work with lawyers in litigation; right?

A I'm hired as an expert frequently by attorneys in the area of database analysis, yes, among other things.

Q You work at TelSwitch also; --

A Yes.

Q -- right?

And You do some consulting outside of TelSwitch, is that right, for non-lawyers and --

A All of my business experiences as far as the relationship formalities fall under the auspices of TelSwitch Inc. So whether I'm working with SAIC or I'm working with Experion or some other large company or whether I'm working for the attorneys it's always been under the auspices of TelSwitch.

Q Fair enough. So you make your money through TelSwitch --

A Yes.

Q -- in doing consulting; right?

A Yes.

Q Some of the consulting is with attorneys, some of it is with other people; right?

A Yes.

Q How much is with other people and how much with attorneys in the past couple of years, can you estimate?

A I would say 20 percent of my revenue for the last 2-and-a-half years has been from attorneys and 80 percent has been from other endeavors.

Q Perfect. Thank you.

Of the 20 percent that's with attorneys how much is from the Mallison & Martinez firm in the last couple of years?

A 30 percent.

Q Do you have any other law firm that has retained you as much as Mallison & Martinez in the last two or three years?

A Rastegar & Matern in Los Angeles. Altshuler Berzon, San Francisco. Those are the firms that come to mind primarily.

Q Okay. Thank you.

And you said in your report, which we'll get to, I promise --

A That's fine.

Q -- that you've worked at much of what you call, quote, meal and break class action lawsuits?

A Yes.

Q Do you recall that? Okay.

How much of your work in the last 2 or 3 years comprises work that you have done consulting for attorneys in meal and break class action lawsuits, if you can estimate, as opposed to doing some other kind of work?

MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object on vagueness grounds. Are you talking of the percentage?


Q How much of your time, how much of your revenue? I mean, that's a good way to do it.

MR. MALLISON: Of the time doing wage an hour class action cases or of the time of his total time?

MR. MOLLAND: Let me rephrase the question --

MR. MALLISON: Yeah, that would be good.

MR. MOLLAND: Since you have a problem with it.

Q You've said about 20 percent of your time --20 percent of your income actually -- is derived from working consulting with attorneys, and now I'm going to ask you how much of that time of your income for that 20 percent is derived from working on what you referred to as meal and break class action lawsuits in your report?

A 90 percent.

Q So I mean it would be fair to say that the predominant amount of your consulting work is as an expert in meal and class -- excuse me -- in meal and break class action lawsuits; correct?

A The predominant amount of time that I'm spending with attorneys is being retained as an expert, a database analysis expert in class actions related to meal and break.

Q Perfect. And I may follow up on that. But I'm just trying to get the landscape here to begin with.

A All right. Not specifically and exclusively related to meal and break, but as a category. If somebody were to ask me what type of cases these are, I would say meal and breaks.

Q Good. We can follow up on that.

Now, and that's been over the last what, what period of time, two or three years or longer?

A Two-and-a-half years.

Q Okay.

Now, I've he gone through your report. I'm going to ask you lots of questions about it, but I'm just trying to get the parameters right now.

A That's fine. Sure.

Q You referred to a particular software or tool that you used to analyze data here. And I'm just going to ask you whether you have a name for it. You used a couple of letters like SQL. My guess is that -- it's kind of a long question -- but my guess is that you have some software that you use to analyze data that you get from defendants in meal and break class action lawsuits that you use in your consulting practice. Would that be fair to say?

A Microsoft produces a piece of software called SQL Query Analyzer. It's a piece of software that comes packaged with their Microsoft SQL server CD ROM. One of the components is called a SQL Analyzer.

And just for the -- for your benefit, when I say SQL it's SQL upper case.

And that is the primary tool that I used in the development of my findings in my report.

Q Okay. And I kind of -- that's sort of the way I read that is that you have a tool that you use, and it's probably called the SQL tool, which I wasn't familiar with, but I'm sure you know a heck of a lot about it. Would it be fair to say in the last 2-and-a-half years when you've been doing this work consulting for attorneys in meal and break class actions that what you do or try to do at least is to get a bunch of electronic data from the defendants and then use the CQL tool to analyze it in one form or another?

A SQL tool.

Q S -- is that correct, though? Is that essentially what you do? Is that the process and procedure that you follow?

A Well, the process is -- I mean, there is a very long process and set of procedures.

Q I'm not really trying -- we'll get into all those.

A But if you --

Q -- can I interrupt you just a second? --

A Sure.

Q -- because I really, I don't mean to pin you down with this. I'm just trying to figure out what the parameters are of the software tool that you've used, okay. And --


MR. MOLLAND: This is your money. We have to take time off for that.

THE WITNESS: Well, welcome.

MR. MOLLAND: It's the first smile he's had on his face since he's sat down.

OFFICE ASSISTANT: Do you have a business card?

THE WITNESS: I do. I'll just write my tax ID number on the back of it for you.

OFFICE ASSISTANT: Thank you, sir.

THE WITNESS: I try to do my best.

MR. MOLLAND: We have a -- by the way, Mr. Mallison, we have a dial-in number for other people who want to participate. I forgot. I didn't -- I think I told you that or told somebody at your office.

MR. MALLISON: You have somebody coming in?

MR. MOLLAND: Yeah, we have another person --and you can certainly use it to. I'm not sure my secretary forwarded it around. I just got it, so I'm going to --

MR. MALLISON: Who is going to be on the line?

MR. MOLLAND: Let me give you the number here.

MR. MALLISON: I assume 415, start there.

MR. MOLLAND: No, 866. It's toll free. (866) 963-7123, and when you get in to that the participant code is 4740, 4740.

MR. MALLISON: All right. Who do you have calling in?

MR. MOLLAND: We'll find out. I don't know I have anybody calling in, but I forgot to -- I have to go call them myself to see whether we have anybody who is going to be on the line.

Can you read that back to me? My BlackBerry got completely fried.

MR. MALLISON: Sure. (866) 963-7123 and then --

MR. MOLLAND: 4740.

Hello? Hello?


MR. MOLLAND: Hi. Who is on, please?

MS. BROCKMAN: This is Amy Brockman at ARPC.

MR. MOLLAND: Thank you.

And she's with us. And if you want to distribute that, that's -- I'm sorry. I didn't --

MR. MALLISON: Oh, you didn't?

MR. MOLLAND: -- get it until this morning.



Q So I was asking you about the SQL tool. And is there any other description you can give me of it other than what you've already testified to that would explain what it is?

A The exact name of the tool is SQL Query,

Q-u-e-r-y, Analyzer.

Q Okay.

A And it comes prepackaged with the client tools of Microsoft SQL server.

Q And do you use that tool at least in part in your analysis in this case?

A Right, this is the primary tool I use in the analysis in all of the cases that I've worked on.

Q Okay.

A It's the same tool I use universally.

Q Okay. And that really was my question whether in every meal and break class action lawsuit that you're involved in as a consultant for a lawyer this is the tool that you use to come up with your analysis. Would that be fair to say?

A Right, as an expert that is hired to do database analysis.

Q Okay.

I'll mark as the first exhibit the notice of taking your deposition.

(Deposition Exhibit 1 marked by the

court reporter.)


Q Have you seen this deposition notice, Mr. Woolfson?

A I have.

Q The deposition notice requires or --requires -- I'm sorry -- requests you bring certain documents that are listed in 16 requests that follow. Did you bring all those documents to the deposition?

A I did. The documents are primarily on the USB stick and then -- well, let's go through the list and I'll tell you where each one of these documents is.

MR. MALLISON: Why don't you do that. BY MR. MOLLAND:

Q To save time, you know, you can just go through the request and apparently you are going to tell me which ones you have on the stick that you brought and which others you brought in some other form. So go right ahead. Start with request 1 and work your way down the line --

A Okay.

Q -- and tell me where the documents now reside.

A Okay. All documents reviewed by deponent -- Stan, may I have the list of codes?


THE WITNESS: That's the only --

MR. MALLISON: It might be helpful if you introduce that as an exhibit the document he gave you on codes.

THE WITNESS: I didn't give -- this is the only.

MR. MOLLAND: I don't think I got anything.

THE WITNESS: This is the document.

MR. MALLISON: That's a document for you guys.


THE WITNESS: This is your document, a list of codes that were used in your data.

MR. MOLLAND: Okay. Exhibit 2. We'll mark it as Exhibit 2.

(Deposition Exhibit 2 marked by the court reporter.)


Q All the documents you reviewed are on Exhibit 2 or are there others?

A Well, this is the only paper document. The other documents are on the USB drive.

Q Perfectly well stated. Okay. So the only paper documents you looked at to form your opinions in this case are on Exhibit 2.

A The only paper version of a document that was used in part to -- in conjunction with the other documents that are in their entirety on the USB stick, those are what I relied upon for the -- to conduct my analysis. (Interruption.)

MR. MOLLAND: We can get both of those.

THE WITNESS: This is your copy. I actually produced that for you, if you'd like that.

MR. MOLLAND: Thank you very much, Pearl.

Q Okay. So we have all the paper documents you reviewed either in whole or in part to form your opinion. They are on Exhibit 2.

Let's go to Request 2. Did you bring all the documents relied upon by you to -- that relate to your opinions?

A Yes, those are on the USB stick.

Q And you produced to us a 8 gigabyte Toshiba

2.0 flash drive; right?

A Yes, sir.

Q I'm going to trust you that everything is on there. We'll probably go through it later on today, but I appreciate that and thank you for it.

A Yeah.

Q Request No. 3 are all documents considered by deponent. Are there any additional documents you considered other than the Exhibit 2 and the 8 gigabyte flash drive?

A There's a -- there's some notes that I used or I took.

Q Okay. May I see those, please?

A Just a second, please. Make sure -- yeah, here they are. These are the four invoices that I produced toward Mallison & Martinez.


THE WITNESS: And those, there's --

MR. MALLISON: Could you make some copies of those?

MR. MOLLAND: Sure. We can do it during the break. I'm just going to mark them now. We'll call that Exhibit 3.

THE WITNESS: And those are the only notes that are outside of the notes that would be on that USB stick.

MR. MOLLAND: So that will be Exhibit 3.

(Deposition Exhibit 3 marked by the court reporter.)


Q Request 4 is for all documents that constitute or comprise any opinions or conclusions. I assume that that would include the expert report that's been produced to us. Anything else?

A Which? I'm sorry. Which request?

Q Request No. 4.

A Okay. Sorry.

Yes, that includes the printed expert report which is also included on that USB drive.

Q Request No. 5 are for all communications by you with any person. I suppose those would be e-mails with lawyers and stuff like that. Did you produce any of that or does any of that exist?

A All of it --

Q Okay.

A -- is included on the USB stick under a folder called E-Mails.

Q Under a folder called ES?

A E-Mails.

Q E-Mails. Okay.

Request No. 6 is for deponent's complete file. Is that also on the memory stick that you produced?

A That is included on the memory stick.

Q Did you have -- was there anybody who assisted you in any way in compiling your expert opinion, doing analysis that is reflected in your expert opinion report in this case?

A I was the sole analyst and author of my work product.

Q Did you get help from anybody who was to give you any advice when you did your work?

A Well, that's a pretty broad question.

Q It is, but --

A But if --

Q -- if your answer is yes, then I can drill down.

A Yeah. All right. There was nobody that I relied upon to conduct or to create the conclusions in my expert report.

Q Okay. A little different question, though. The question is whether you had the help or got the assistance of anybody in doing anything that led you to write the expert report, like, you know, to convert the database to a different format or figure out how to use your SQL tool --

A I understand.

Q -- to look at the database, you know, any stuff like that.

A I understand your question.

Q Yeah.

A There is one gentleman named Brad who is with BVS, and he was retained by plaintiff counsel to convert your client's production of RAM disk to an IBM compatible format that from what I understand just simply was an output of registers from your production.

Q What was his name?

A Brad.

Q Does he have a last name?

A I believe it's Stone.

Q Brad Stone. Okay.

A Yes. And the correspondence in its entirety is on that flash disk under the E-Mails folder.

Q Essentially is the way it worked that the defendants or Sunview produced some electronic data. Brad Stone got the electronic data, did something to it so you could use your SQL tool on it, and gave you whatever he did so you could use your SQL tool on it, and that's what you did. Is that the sequence of events?

A No. The sequence of events is that your client uses a computer system I believe called an I Systems AS-400 IBM type of system. I'm hired as a database analysis expert. An AS-400 is not a typical type of data that I run into because most clients will output a format that is a little more completely file type consistent with, with modern Windows systems.

Q Okay. So essentially --

A So --

Q -- to cut to the chase here, what you got from our client for electronic data wasn't something you could run a Windows system based SQL tool on; right?

A Right.

Q So you had to do something on it to run your SQL tool on it through Windows; right?

A Right. And my understanding is he took 100 percent of your registers. They are called registers for whatever reason. I don't -- I'm not hired to be an AS-400 expert.

Q Right.

A But in the AS-400 world there is something called registers, and those registers were output to comma separated value export per Sunview's specific instructions and directions to Brad, who then provided Mr. Mallison's office with the completed export.

Q Okay. And so --

A And that's what I worked on.

Q Okay. So you referred to -- what you worked on was what you say was export given to you by Brad Stone through Mr. Mallison's office; right?

A I worked on export -- I worked -- I worked on data provided by defendant that had been converted in its entirety by Brad Stone so that I could utilize my SQL Query Analyzer on that data.

Q Okay. Did you try to use your SQL analyzer data tool on the original data that Sunview gave you or did you ever get the original Sunview data? That's two questions, and it's a bad -- so that's pretty bad.

A Yeah, that's pretty compound.

Q Did you ever get --

A Let's break that up into two separate questions.

Q Did you ever get the original data that was supplied to the plaintiffs' attorneys in this case, the original data?

A Yes. I did review it with Mr. Mallison present and stated that it seemed like it was in a format that could be only read by an AS-400.

Q Got you. So would it be fair to say that you did not analyze the original data Sunview produced in this case, but you analyzed converted data given to you by Mr. Mallison's office that you understand was converted by Mr. Stone, and you think Mr. Stone did it right?

A Well, I'm not opining as to whether or not Mr. Stone did one thing or another. The data as represented by Sunview was on a DVD RAM disk which I do not have the facilities to read. I'm a SQL expert. I'm not a DVD RAM expert.

Q Right.

So what did do you when you figured that out?

A I was specifically asked for that data to be converted to a CSV format.

Q A CSE format?



A Comma separated value format so that I could use my SQL analyzer on that.

Q Okay. And were you -- it's not your job and you are not expert in analyzing that data to a CSV format, so you had somebody else do it; is that accurate?

A No, that's misstating my testimony.

Q Okay. State it correctly. I don't want to --

A So I was very specifically given a DVD RAM by your client, Sunview. I asked Mr. Palau, who works for Mr. Mallison, Mr. Mallison's office, to ask Sunview to output the data in a CSV format so that it was it's called cross-platform compatible. Your client said that we -- and I mean that by saying plaintiffs' counsel needed to find somebody to conduct that activity on their behalf. For whatever reason, that's what your -- that's what my understanding is of what was told to plaintiffs' counsel.

Q All right. You know that because that's what Plaintiffs' counsel told you; right?

A That is what plaintiffs' counsel told me is that we would need to find someone to convert that data.

Q Okay. So what's your understanding of how that conversion got done? How did it get done?

A Well, I -- a disk was mailed, overnighted to BVS.

Q What's BVS?

A I'm sorry. Brad Stone's company.

Q Okay.

A And that converted -- pardon me. The cross-platform compatible data extraction was made available via a zip file that Mr. Stone had extracted from the original disk that was provided.

Q Okay. And then that's what you used. You used that which you got from Mr. Stone to do your work; right?

THE WITNESS: Do we need to wait for tape?


THE WITNESS: Okay. That is what I used.

The comma separated value register extraction from Mr. Stone's company was what I used to import into Microsoft SQL.


Q Okay. It doesn't sound very complicated.

You got the data from Sunview, it was in a format that your SQL tool wouldn't work in, couldn't analyze; right? Isn't that correct?

A Well, you say it doesn't sound very complicated. I don't know what's involved in that process.

Q I'll withdraw the question.

A But it's --

Q I'll withdraw the question.

A It's --

Q These are the steps. It doesn't seem to --the steps don't seem very complicated, although it was a long story. But anyway, step one, you get some data from Sunview; right? You got some data from Sunview that pertained to --

A Plaintiffs' counsel did, yes.

Q They then hired you as an expert in meal and rest break litigation to analyze it with your SQL tool; right?

A They hired me to conduct an analysis prior to receiving this. But I understand your -- I understand what you're saying, and I think the answer is yes.

Q Look, I don't think it's complicated. But maybe if it is more complicated than this I need to ask you more questions about it.

A Sure, that's fine. I don't mind answering. I'm just trying to be helpful and answer the questions and as explicitly as possible.

Q Plaintiffs' counsel got some employment data or payroll data from Sunview at some point in this litigation; right?

A Yes.

Q All right. You had worked for them before in meal and rest break litigation, right, as an expert?

A Yes.

Q All the time you that did that before you used an SQL tool to do your analysis; right?

A Yes.

Q They hired you in this case; right?

A Yes.

Q You looked at the data that Sunview sent you through plaintiffs' lawyer; right?

A Through plaintiffs' counsel, yes.

Q You determined you couldn't use your SQL tool on the data; right?

A I determined that the format that your clients produced was not IBM ASCII compatible to be able to import into SQL as it was on that DVD RAM.

Q So you asked either -- somebody arranged it, your plaintiffs' counsel, for somebody else to convert the data into a format that could be read with your tool; right?

A With Microsoft's tool, yes.

Q And that's what they did. And they sent you the data when it was converted, and you used your tool to come up with your opinions; right?

A I used the Microsoft SQL tool to run queries against the data that was converted to establish my opinions which are outlined in my expert report.

Q Perfect.

A Yeah.

Q And you don't know what process somebody went through to convert the data to the readable form for your SQL tool. You just know that data arrived, your SQL tool worked, and you did your analysis; right?

A I'm not able to really opine as to what Mr. Stone did to convert the data and how that worked.

Q Right. You don't know what Mr. Stone did to the data to make it convertible to your tool, right, the SQL tool?

A It is my understanding that the data was simply converted in its entirety from AS-400 to an ASCII, A-S-C-I-I, style output and that those instructions were provided to him by your client.

Q Do you know -- did you know whether or not the data produced by Sunview came in two files, ten files, one file? Do you have any idea what format the original data took that you saw?

A It was a 900 and -- I want to say 993 megabyte file called Production. That was it.

Q Did you ever see a file called Registers?

A There are several Register files that I was provided by BVS, but those files -- those files we were -- I was told through plaintiffs' counsel that those files were all within the file called Production on that DVD RAM, but I was not -- I am not able to read AS-400 native file format on a standard PC running Windows.

Q Okay. There are a number of other requests for documents in Exhibit 1. All the other requests from Request 7, Request 8, are all those other documents or electronic data on the memory stick, the flash drive produced by you at this deposition?

A Well, you said all those --

MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object. Vague.

He has got a lot of stuff here.

THE WITNESS: Mr. Molland, you said are all those other requests. Which numbers do you want to refer to? No. 7?


Q Well, let's go through here. We're taking a lot of time with this. I'm just trying to figure out what's in the --

A We have 7 hours.

Q Well, who knows, we may have to pay you more money.

Request No. 8 is that on the stick?

A Request No. 7 is on the stick. Request No. 8 is on the stick. Request No. 9 is on the stick.

And I just want to note that when you discuss the charts, the set of charts contained within deponent's report, these charts are just generated from SQL Query Analyzer and cut and paste into Microsoft Word, so there's not a separate file --

Q Got you.

A -- containing charts. It's just cut and paste based upon the SQL. So the underlying SQL is there. And so the answer to that is yes, it's there, but not in the manner that you think of a separate set of charts.

Q Understood.

Request No. 10?

A Well, request No. 10 is a -- it's a licensed Microsoft product. So the best way to answer No. 10 is -- well, this is really awkwardly worded.


THE WITNESS: (Reading) The database querying language called SQL.

I put an entire Microsoft SQL backup set on this stick in its own folder so that your client, your expert, whoever you have hired can reconstitute that database in its entirety. That's how I believe that you were ask -- what you were asking for in request No. 10 was the entire SQL database set containing all the data and all the structures as I used the SQL to conduct my analysis and produce my results that I put in my expert report.


Q Okay. With that statement, why don't we go to request No. 11.

A Okay. Request No. 11. (Reading) The tools deponent used in tallying of events.

Q This comes straight out of your report. You say: These are the same tools which I have used in tallying of events --

A Right.

Q -- in approximately 48 meal and break class action lawsuits.

A Yes.

Q That's in your report. That's what your report says.

A Right. I understand that. It's just that the tools Microsoft SQL Query Analyzer is a product that's licensed that Microsoft makes available to licensees. It is a tool that is very universally available on the Internet and other places. The version I use is the Microsoft official program itself. And so I -- I didn't provide that, but I provided all the SQL and all the statements that somebody could use to get the same results that I did.

Q Okay. And basically it's the same tool you used in all these class action lawsuits?

A Every case that I've worked on.

Q Okay. Fine.

Request No. 12.

A I've been working with that tool for 20 years since it first came out in Microsoft SQL 4.2B. So it's been a long time.

Q Request No. 12, the time clock files. Are all the what you refer to as time clock files contained on the flash drive, the memory stick you've produced?

A They are.

Q Okay.

Request No. 13, the particular query written to exclude shifts referred to in your report, is that -- and request No. 13 -- is that in the electronic data you produced?

A It is.

Q Request No. 14, is that in the electronic data you produced?

A Yes.

MR. MOLLAND: Okay. The next exhibit will be


(Deposition Exhibit 4 marked by the

court reporter.) BY MR. MOLLAND:

Q Before we go on to that. We are trying --I'm trying to open up the electronic data you provided, and apparently we're having some problems.

A Okay.

Q Is there a -- if we wanted to open that up, how would we do that?

A That's the -- that production file, that's the same problem that I had. That's why I had BVS ask plaintiff to convert that file. That's the original file that's produced by Sunview that was on that RAM drive. My computer won't open that file either.

Q Okay. Well, is there anything that you produced to us that the computer can open up?

A This is the -- these are the files -- these files. If you go to the file called -- go to the folder there called Unzipped, please, if I may.

Q So what you're saying is is all the files in -- below the desktop, all the files that you reviewed are in one of these different folders; is that right?

A Yeah, let's open up -- double click on E right there. See if we can -- yeah, let's -- this is a little bit of a different view than I'm used to using. But yes. Data from Sunview, what you were specifically asking me -- if you could do me a favor and click on Data From Sunview on the top there, Mr. Molland.

Yeah, so if you see there something called Original Production Raw.

Q Right.

A Click on that. I think that's the original -- yeah, so do Unzipped. There you go. So that's the file you were just asking me about.

Q Yeah. Okay.

A Now hit the back -- yeah, okay, back button a few times.

Q Well, let's go to the file -- for instance, let's just start with the file that Mr. Stone sent you that you used the SQL tool on. How do I find that?

A Let's go back. Click on "Back" there. That's fine.

Q Keep going?

A No. You went back too far. There you go. Registers and Decoded. Do you see where it says

Q Um-hm.

A Double click that. There's your CSV file.

Q Right here?

A Yes, that's an -- I'm sorry. This is a field description list. Go down -- I'm sorry. Mr. Molland, let's close this document.

Yeah, that's going to take a long time to open.

Q Is that what Mr. Stone sent you, this CSV file?

A That is a full extraction of the registers that were contained within the Production file, which you couldn't open either.

Q True. But is that file that we're opening now, the CSV file, is that the file you got from Mr. Stone?

A Yes.

Q Okay. That's good. That's all I want to know.

A Click on OK there.

Q Okay.

A So --

Q All right. We'll play around with this a little bit, and we'll ask you more questions in the afternoon once we feel comfortable with it.

A Sure, that's fine.

Q Thank you.

MR. MALLISON: You might want to get a copy of SQL.


Q Did you look at any paper documents other than what is -- what are represented on Exhibit 2?

A No.

Q And just so I'm really sure, Sunview has something called daily sheets or daily timesheets, some of which I think are in the possession of plaintiffs' counsel. Did they show you any of those?

A If -- let's look in this -- I want to answer your question very specifically. If you could be so kind as to open up that file, the file folder explorer again. Was it Dale?


THE WITNESS: Okay. If you could open that, and go to the root level which should just be under E, just right there. And there is one file there called -- let's scroll down a little bit. I'm just curious if there is anything here that -- no, that's it. Yeah, I don't -- these are all the PDFs of everything that I looked at.


Q Okay. So anyway, you don't recall anything that would be called the daily sheet or timesheet that was produced by Sunview to plaintiffs' counsel in this case; would that be fair to say? If you recall.

A I believe that I saw one sheet that had some handwritten timesheet notations on it. And I believe it -- the answer is most likely I did not see anything. I'm just thinking about if I saw this in -- let's see here. Did I -- let's go back to that folder again. If I saw something and I received something, it would be in here.

Q Okay. Well, let's --

A So the answer is --

Q You can't recall right now?

A Yeah, I don't think I did. I may have --just the fact that you say that makes me think maybe I did, but I don't think that I saw any time log reports.

Q Do you have any understanding -- well, did you review any transcripts of depositions in this case?

A I have not seen any transcripts of anything in this case.

Q In the past meal and break class action lawsuits you've looked in, have any, to your understanding, been class action lawsuits involving farm workers?

A Yes.

Q Okay. How many? And maybe I could ask the question -- I don't want to -- give me your best estimate how many.

A Well, I don't -- I'm not hired to estimate.

Q Well, give me your best guess, then.

A Sorry. I want to be very careful here. It's amazing how things read in a transcript post deposition, so --

Q To your best recollection, do you think you've been involved in more than five farm worker cases?

A Yes.

Q That's all I really need to know.

And you understand this is a farm worker case, or do you?

A I understand that it involves farm workers.

Q Have you read the Complaint in this case?

A I have not.

Q Do you know what the claims are in this case outside of that they involve meal and break claims?

A I'm typically just hired to analyze sets of data and then asked a series of questions and whether or not I see certain things in the data and to provide a report. So I don't know the specific issues in this case, and I prefer not to.

Q Yeah. Now, but you made certain queries and you wrote a report in this case which is Exhibit 4 that you have in front of you; right?

A Well, the results of the queries are contained within my report of which Exhibit 4 contains the sum of -- the sum of my work product.

Q Okay. How did you determine to do the queries that you did that are reported in your expert report? Are they the same queries that you do in all the farm work cases or were there different queries that you did?

A Well, let's break that down. There's three different questions there.

Q Let's ask the first one.

A Okay.

Q Have you done the same queries that you did in this case and all the farm worker cases that you've had where you've worked for Mallison & Martinez or did you do different ones?

A The items that I'm asked to analyze are uniform in both their approach and methods. The queries that I ran here are no different in the underlying timings of shifts than any other farm worker case that I've worked on. There are specific things that I was asked to conduct SQL queries or tallies of.

Q Who asked you?

A There is an attorney named Mr. -- is it Tom Lynch? Is that one of the attorneys?

Q Anybody else ask you to do something?

A There is a Mr. Steve Hernandez. Mr. Marco, M-a-r-c-o, Palau, P-a-l-a-u. P-a-l-a- -- yeah. And there is a Mr. Stan Nelson.

Q Okay. What did they ask you to do?

A Well, they asked me to conduct tallies of events that are evident in defendant's data and the daily work time and piece-rate reports per specific pay codes and pay types.

Q When you worked for Mallinson & Martinez, had you done the same analysis of the record that you've received from them in preparing your expert reports in other meal and break class action cases?

A Let's ask that again to make it a little more clear. I'm sorry. I want to be really --

Q In other cases where you've been retained by Mallison & Martinez have you done the same analysis of the data that you did here?

MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object on work product grounds based on to the extent that he served as a consultant and not a testifying expert. But you can answer with regards to testifying expert.

MR. MOLLAND: Fair enough.


THE WITNESS: The structure of the queries, the methods, the procedures are uniformly applied in all cases.


Q All right. That was my question.

A There's -- I just want to say one thing, though, about that, that there is data specifically and uniquely structured in your data. For instance, your pay code 630 or 631 for vacation may not be the same pay code that's used in another case, so accommodations and in SQL structure may be applied using different pay codes and pay types. But the underlying principles, the overall structure of the queries is the same in every case.

Q Let's turn to your report, to Exhibit 4. First you determined the number of shifts for all employees; right?

A Are you looking at a specific paragraph?

Q Yeah, paragraph 16 where you start discussing your -- you say: My findings are as follows. I'm just picking the first one. Your first finding was the number of shifts that you analyzed from the records, right, the data?

A Yes.

Q Is that something you do in all your meal and break class actions you analyze, you first determine the number of shifts?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Then you determine the number of employees that appeared. Is that something you do in all your meal and break class actions?

A Yes.

Q Then you determine the length of the shifts. Is that something you do in all your meal and break class actions?

A Yes.

Q Then you determine the number of employees experiencing shifts of a certain length. Is that something you do in all your meal and class actions --all your meal and rest break class actions?

A Yes.

Q And then you went through in sections D, E and F and determined the number of shifts that were over five, six and ten hours; right?

A Yes.

Q Is that something you do in all your meal and break class actions?

A It is.

Q On page 5, then you report your other findings. Do you see that?

A Yes, sir.

Q You determine the number of shifts that occurred within a work day when the number of hours were worked less than 2 hours in a work day. Is that something you do in all your meal and class -- excuse me -- meal and rest break class actions?

A Yes.

Q And then you determined how many employee shifts numbered less than 4 hours in a work day. Is that something you do in all your meal and rest break class actions?

A Yes.

Q Then you determined the number of shifts where employees were paid exclusively piece-rate work during the time they work. Is that something you do in all your meal and rest break class actions that are farm worker actions?

MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object on the same grounds of work product based on that he's talking about consulting. So if we can limit it to testifying expert.

MR. MOLLAND: I do. I will.

THE WITNESS: If there is a piece-rate only shift that is self-evident in data, I will analyze that and create a chart for that.


Q And then you went on to determine how many employees were not paid minimum wage; right?

A Which paragraph are we talking about here, Mr. Molland?

Q Well, certainly 20. It looks 21.

A Okay.

Q Right?

A Yes.

Q All right. Is that something you do in all your other cases in which you are a testifying expert for meal and rest break class actions?

A That involve piece-rate work?

Q That involve anything.

A Well, the minimum -- 20 and 21 talk about two different things. I mean, you look at straight pay, you look at -- you look at -- I mean, minimum wage is something that I analyze in every case I've ever worked on.

Q Good. That's all I'm asking.

And then you determined the number of shifts where Sunview reported over 10 hours. Do you see that?

A On paragraph --

Q 24.

A Okay.

Q Right?

A Yes.

Q Why did you do -- why did you do that, do you know?

A The query in 24 was specifically asked for by Mr. Mallison.

Q I understand that. But why did you -- do you understand why you did it? And you may or may not.

A Well, I am -- I am not hired as an expert in what is classified as what should be at paid overtime or not. So the area that you're asking me to opine in is -- mine it's more of a anecdotal than fact stating. I don't know why in a farm worker case overtime is more than 10 hours versus in a restaurant where it's more than 8 hours. I just -- I don't know why the laws are or the rules are the way they are.

Q Okay.

A But I'm just simply running a query that I'm asked to do in every farm worker case.

Q Right.

A Every one.

Q And it's your understanding that anecdotally this relates to overtime, but you don't really understand why; fair?

A I don't know why the rules for farm workers are a certain thing versus retail establishments. If that's what you're asking me --

Q No, I'm not --

A -- I don't know why.

Q But all I'm saying is in Category 24 you understand generally this analysis you were doing was relating to overtime, but you don't understand why it was relating to overtime; correct?

A Well, I assume it was because overtime wasn't paid.

Q Fine. And that's your understanding of the work you were doing under paragraph 24; right?

A I understand that when I'm asking to look at amount of hours worked where there is no overtime evident that that's overtime that's not paid, and attorneys want to know that.

MR. MALLISON: Can we take a break in a few minutes when it's convenient?

MR. MOLLAND: Sure. Of course. Absolutely. Any time you want to take a break, let me know that.

MR. MALLISON: Too much coffee. BY MR. MOLLAND:

Q Since you have generated your report -- and I can't remember now. I have to look at this. I think it was April 23rd, but I'm not sure. April 18th. Since your report on April 18, 2011, have you done any work in this case?

A May I see my billing timesheets?

Q Of course.

A I think that will let me know. So you're asking after which date?

Q After you wrote your report.

MR. MALLISON: April 18.

THE WITNESS: On April 20th I was with Mr. Steve Fernandez in Encino. I was down there for other matters, and I had some time between appointments, so I stopped by to say hello and to work with him on reviewing my report. He had a question about minimum wage, the same question you asked me about -- about, what is it, paragraphs 20 through 22, and we reviewed them, but I did not produce any work product, nor did I reach any conclusions.


Q Let me just ask you a simple question. Have you done -- have you formed any different opinions since you wrote your report --

A No.

Q -- that are not in your report? Is that correct?

A I have no new opinions that are not contained within this report that I produced.

MR. MOLLAND: Then we can take a break.


(Recess taken.)

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 11:33 a.m.

(Recess taken.)

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at 11:49 a.m.


Q Okay. Mr. Woolfson, what I would like to do is now go through your report which you have it as Exhibit 4 and see if we can sync it in or tie it in to the electronic data that you produced so we know with respect to the electronic data what you're referring to in your report. That's going to be the objective. Hopefully we can get it done before lunch, but we have 40 minutes, let's try.

Let's start on page 2, please. The first sentence says: Daily work time and piece-rate reports have been provided as IBM AS-400 backup set called Can you show us on your electronic data where those -- what you refer to as daily work time and piece-rate reports reside?

A Sure. This is in the Data From Sunview folder. The reports provided by Sunview are in a file called Production that appeared on the DVD RAM.

Q Okay.

A That was converted by BVS. There's companies that I use as part of my course of work typically where you run into a situation where you are asked to analyze data that you're not -- you're not -- that aren't in native format to the platform that you're running it on. There's companies like Brad's company that will do that.

Q So the production -- what's called accords to what's called original production?

A Right.

Q Or that accords to the file called Production. Is that right?

A Yes.

Q Okay. And by the way, have you ever spoken to Mr. Stone about the conversion?

A I have.

Q What have you talked about?

A I asked him if there was any additional information that he needed from me to convert the data. And he said that he would speak directly with Mr. Mallison's firm. And I guess -- I assume he probably spoke with co-counsel since there are some e-mail threads.

Mr. Stone was referred to me by somebody who has used him before in data conversion. Mr. Stone's list of clients are pretty extensive. And I let Mr. Mallison's firm make that determination as to whether they wanted to use him.

Q All right. So other than that one conversation you haven't talked to Mr. Stone about what he did; right?

A The only conversation I had was with him regarding the output format, if comma separated values which would have been a direct translation from your original data would be sufficient. And I said yes.

Q Okay. Then you refer to files provided named PDFs of payroll reports showing checks, check numbers and earnings for each period. Where are they on the disk?

A In a folder called Registers and Decoded.

Q Registers and Decoded?

A And Decoded.

Q And there are three files in that particular file; right?

A You have, registers and PR55DTLR.csv, respectively.

Q Are those converted files?

A They are the resulting files from BVS that contain original registers in CSV or PDF format, respectively.

Q Is that something Mr. Stone provided to you?

A That is something that is an extraction of data from your original Sunview data that Mr. Stone provided. So I understand it to be a direct conversion.

Q And is the PR55DTLR.cvs file -- where is that in the data?

A The CSV file is under the folder called Registers_and_Decoded.

Q When you did your queries with the SQL tool, what file did you use to do those queries on?

A The PR55DTLR.csv file is imported into Microsoft SQL 2008 Release 2. The queries, the SQL language itself is actually run against the Microsoft data that contains the original CSV file.

Q Okay. Did you use the SQL queries in any way on the PDFs of payroll reports showing employees, check number and earnings for each period?

A The PDFs were looked at but are not in a format that can be used with SQL.

Q What use, if any, in your report did you make of the PDFs of payroll reports?

A The PDFs as I have been told by counsel, of which conversation was noted on page 3 of invoice 1103000068 which is marked as Exhibit 3. These notes are from a conversation where I was specifically told that the PDFs contained the data that was in the file -- I mean .csv file. Pardon me. And that those PDFs reflected what was in the data, the registers, directly.

Q That wasn't my question. My question is, what use, if any, did you make of the PDFs of the payroll reports that are under 9 A in your report?

A I did checking of the PDFs to see if sums of hours and wages appearing in the CSVs were contained within the detail of the CSV file.

Q How did you check them?

A I reviewed the CSV data and then looked for individual items appearing within the PDFs themselves. Now, I -- so these are -- these values here that you see on the screen are contained -- oh, that's the noon bell.

MR. MALLISON: Tuesday --

THE WITNESS: On Tuesday. I forgot.

The data that's contained on these PDFs is as a result of the CSV or a compilation of the CSV files that contain the details. And this was told to me by the Sunview -- I don't know what to call the people --IT people? These are the notes for that conversation. BY MR. MOLLAND:

Q Did you talk to Sunview IT people?

A I believe they were on a conference call regarding the production of data at some point.

Q My question is what use in your opinion in your report, in your conclusions did you make of the PDFs of payroll reports? You said you checked them. I'm asking -- my question is how you checked them, what checks you did, if you did any, between the PDF of payroll reports and any of your other work?

A Well, what I'm saying is that this file was represented to me as -- hear me out. You're asking questions, and I want to be very specific.

Q I am asking a question I'd like you to answer, which is just what use did you make of it. You may have been told a lot of stuff, I don't know, but what use did you make of the PDF payroll reports? Did you make any use at all?

A The PDFs are not in a SQL compatible format.

Q Could you please answer my question. Did you make any use of the PDF reports? Yes or no. If you did, then I'll ask you what you did. If you didn't, then we can move on.

A The PDFs --

Q I know what they are, okay?

A Well, the PDFs have been spot-checked against the CSV file --

Q Okay.

A -- to confirm that the data was on these checks that was in the CSV files.

Q Okay. Did you make any other use?

A No.

Q Okay. Thank you.

Paragraph 10: "I processed the PR55DTLR.csv file using Microsoft SQL to create a set of charts." What charts are you referring to in paragraph 10?

A The charts that are illustrated in paragraphs 16, 17, paragraph 18 of my declaration.

Q Perfect.

A Expert report.

Q Paragraph 12, it says: "Sunview produced time clock files." What -- can you show me the time clock files that Sunview produced on the memory stick, please? What file are they in?

A PR55DTLR.csv.

Q You refer to them as time clock files. What does time clock files mean to you?

A In this case, the number of hours, the pay code, the block, the classification of, of work whether its hourly or piece-rate, the number of hours worked, pay rate.

Q Okay. You're just referring to the category of code. My question, though, you refer to something called a time clock. To me a time clock is a clock. Did you just use that loosely to mean these are time records?

A Oh, I don't use anything loosely in here.

Q Where is the clock? What would a clock file be to you?

A A clock file would be a ledger of hours worked and the amount of time that was paid or not paid, the hourly rate where the employee worked, the type of work they did, what job category they were working, what block, what ranch or location.

Q Okay. I think I understand. I get it. So you're referring to -- what you were just referring to is the different categories of information that are in PR55DTLR.csv, and you call those a time clock file; right?

A Actually, that's what counsel calls it.

Q Well --

A That's why I refer to it as the time clock file.


MR. MOLLAND: Thank you.

I have to hold this until the end of the deposition to make sure you come back from lunch.

THE WITNESS: I'm thinking about it.


Q You say that that, the file -- when you're referring to time clock file what you're referring to is the 55DTLR.csv file; right?

A Right. And that's the specific language that your client used when they spoke of this was a timecard file.

Q Good.

A So timecard file, I asked what was in it.

And they explained to me that it was the time clock file. So that's what I've called it. But that's also what Steve Hernandez and Tom Lynch refer to it as.

Q Then, in paragraph 12 there is a box and in it there is a SQL statement. Can you tell me what that is?

A Four points connected by lines. You have to be more specific is what I'm getting at.

Q Paragraph 12, is what you're saying is that you used a SQL statement to come up with the information that there were 7 billion and change rows of data and 7,997 employees, that conclusion was based upon a certain SQL statement which is in the box below on paragraph 12. Is that the way that works?

A Yes.

Q Okay.

And this goes on to say: "Select distinct reference from work data." What -- is there a particular file where work data is, resides or is?

A Now you're getting into the part I love.

Q Good. I'm glad that I'm making your heart beat faster.

A You just did it.

Q Maybe you can speed up a little bit. We'll put you on faster than the clock speed.

MR. MALLISON: More coffee.

THE WITNESS: Well, I've been told by, let's see here, four of the five last transcriptionists or court reporters that I speak too fast, so I'm trying to be more articulate.

MR. MOLLAND: You're breaking no records today.

THE WITNESS: Well, let me explain a little bit about the structure of how SQL works. SQL is a big -- it's a big bucket of data. It's a big bucket of your data. Work Data is a table name that I use where I put all of the work days that an employee is present and the data. And I group it by employee number which I call reference.


Q Okay. Is there a place in the electronic data you produced to us where the work data is?

A You bet. I -- I did.

Q And can you identify it, please?

A Microsoft SQL 2008 Release 2 Database. This is the backup set. If you were to restore this to a database restore point, you would see all of my work product, you'd see all of the SQL tables that the data is contained and you would see your data in the tables. One is called Raw Data. One is called Work Data.

Q Can you do that simply by opening up that file?

A I wish I could. This would require Microsoft SQL 2008 at least 2 to be installed on this computer.

Q You know a lot more about this than I do, but I'm just making the assumption based upon what you've told me that if you take that particular file which is the Microsoft SQL 2008 2 Database, and it's actually referred to as the SQ 2008 2 Backup Set -- I can't read the last word there.

A Would you like to see it in its reconstituted format? I could show it to you.

Q But just -- we'll get there.

A Okay.

Q The particular file that we're looking at right now, and I -- can you just read the file? I can't read it.

A Yeah, the focus is a little bit off on your overhead, but it's called SQL 20 -- oh, here, let's do this. Control-insert. Where did the document go? It's still opening. Just a second, please. Shift-insert. I think there is an N there. Insert and Home, and --

MR. MOLLAND: I can read that.


Q So the file is called SQL 2008 r2 backup set.bak. And from that file did you do all your searches and inquiries with the SQL tool that you used?

A I did.

Q Okay. So basically it's that file that has all the set of data that you used to reach your conclusions --

A Yes.

Q -- in this case; right?

A Yes.

Q Okay.

A And I want to just say that any SQL expert would be able to reconstitute this as a fully searchable SQL table on Microsoft SQL and be able to conduct the same searches I did and would come up with the same conclusions, meaning that if you have a designated expert they would be able to take this and within 20 minutes be able to have this fully reestablished as a native SQL --

Q Okay.

A -- on a SQL server in their office.

Q Yeah.

Now, you referred to a reference point. You said that there was a reference point and that with utilization of that reference point you could reproduce all the different searches and conclusions that you did; right? What do you mean by reference point? And if I got it wrong --

A Yeah. Well, it's an interesting term. Did I say reference point, actually say reference point? I probably meant to say a backup, a reference or establish a base- -- a reference -- or a baseline as a reference point.

Q Okay.

A But I think that's a good term, reference point.

Q How would you do that?

A The Microsoft SQL 2008 system itself contains a mechanism called a SQL restore process. So I would take this file itself and physically put it onto the hard drive of a SQL server that's running this particular version of Microsoft SQL, which happens to be I think the latest one. I would then go to Microsoft SQL Management Console and right click on the named database instance. I would then choose Tasks and Restore Database. I would then specify new database with the restore file being the file that's named and is listing on -- list is appearing on the overhead. I would click okay and within about 10 minutes SQL would fully reconstitute that entire file. If you would like me to provide a set of printed instructions for how to do that process, I would be -- it would be my pleasure.

Q Okay. I'll take you up on that.

A I am happy to do that, and I could have that for you this afternoon at some point.

Q Good.

A It's a pretty straightforward process. But I've been asked to produce it before, so I have it readily available.

Q Good. Well, if you would do that, that would be great.

A You bet. I will do that for you.

Q Paragraph 13 --

A Let me write that down to make sure that I --

Q Sure.

MR. MALLISON: He's eventually going to take a look at your notes. Unless you have a note for yourself. I guess you've got a copy.

THE WITNESS: I've got a copy.

MR. MALLISON: You're so smart. BY MR. MOLLAND:

Q Let's go to paragraph 13.

A Okay.

Q You say you excluded certain pay codes. Why did you do that?

A I was told to.

Q Who told you to?

A Tom Lynch.

Q Do you know why you excluded them?

A Well --

Q Do you have --

A I mean, I could opine.

Q No. Do you have any factual basis for why you excluded them?

A Yes.

Q What is it?

A There is a pay code, specific pay code called 631 which is for vacation, and it would -- it would not -- it would indicate, from my understanding of what Mr. Lynch told me, that vacation days are when employees are at --

Q Fair enough.

A -- the work site.

Q Whatever understanding you have is based on what Mr. Lynch told you; right?

A Yes.

Q And you followed his direction?

A I followed his direction for which pay codes to not use within my analysis.

Q Okay.

A The analysis itself is my work product which I was hired to do as an expert.

Q Paragraph 14, you come up with a database contained 3 thousand, or excuse me, 3 million-and-change employee shifts. When you refer to the database is that the SQ12008 r2 backup set.bak database?

A There is a table in there called Work Data and the work data is the cumulation of the 3,123,934 shifts that were not excluded from the analysis.

Q Okay. Where is that data on the hard disk you produced?

A That is in one of the tables on SQL 2008 r2 backup set.

Q Okay. And that's where we'd go to find it?

A Right.

Q All right.

A All of the data that we spoke of is within those -- within that backup set. It's just we're looking at different tables, as you will, to -- to contain the data points that I either conducted my analysis on or didn't.

Q What's --

A So --

Q What's a shift?

A A shift is an employee appearing in the data with a number of hours or a number of activities that included piece rate -- piece-rate pay during that work day. So an employee could have -- I'm just saying as an example, I'm not specifically pointing to exactly. I'm just saying as an example, an employee is on ranch -- Ranch 3, and then an employee is on Ranch 4 as in one day. There may be multiple shift segments in one day.

Q So an employee may have more than one shift in one day?

A No. May have more than one shift segment in one day.

Q Okay.

A But that is -- but an employee has one -- if an employee appears, I call it a shift. That shift may have taken place in multiple segments across multiple locations.

Q Of course. But so to you a shift, when you say there are a number of shifts, a little over 3 million, does that mean 3 million work days or is it something different?

A Well, it means one employee, one work day, any number of employees on any number of days. But if you look at -- if you look at in this room there are 8 people and we're all working, there would be 8 shifts even though they are all -- there are 8 different people on one day. Conversely, if you were in this room for one day and you were one person, that would be one -- I would call that one shift. If you were in this room for eight days, eight days of eight hours each day you would be -- that would be eight shifts.

Q Okay. Isn't it a simple way just to say it, when you say that there's under paragraph 16 3,123,934 total shifts, that means you took the number of days worked at Sunview times the number of employees that worked them and came up with that number?

MR. MALLISON: Objection. Misstates testimony.

THE WITNESS: Yeah, it's not --BY MR. MOLLAND:

Q That's different?

A Well, it's very -- there was a distinction there because any number of employees could have been present or not present on any particular work day.

Q Of course.

A And there could have been work days skipped. I underst- --

Q I don't think this is very complicated.

A Well, it's not.

Q If one guy works at Sunview over a period of time and --

A Within the same day.

Q No. One guy works at Sunview for 100 days.

A Okay.

Q And sometimes he works 1 hour, sometimes he works 12 hours or he works all kind of different hours in those 100 days, in your opinion does he have more than 100 shifts?

A No. He has 100 --

Q Of course.

A -- shifts made up of perhaps multiple shift segments.

Q Right. So essentially a shift is a day in which an employee worked, although he may have worked at a whole bunch of different places or done a whole bunch of different stuff; right?

A Correct.

Q All right.

Okay, let's go to paragraph 17, please. Did you look at any particular codes to determine whether an employee worked less than two hours in any given work day under paragraph 17?

A I don't think Sunview has a -- well, there are a lot of different codes Sunview uses, but I don't think Sunview uses a particular code that says worked for under 2 hours on any particular day of an accumulation of those shift segments on that particular day with respect to that employee. So the answer is I looked at the work codes that were not specifically told to me by Mr. Lynch to exclude from my analysis. And if the sum of the hours on those work codes using the hourly pay designator was less than two, then that's what would appear in shifts less than two hours in a day.

Q Okay. And the file you were looking at was the file -- for this purpose was the data that was contained in the SQL 2008 r2 backup set; right?

A Actually it was the data that you provided in the CSV file that's contained within the SQL tables.

Q All right. I don't understand what you're talking about. Show me the data that you used to conduct these searches that resulted in the findings on paragraph 17.

A Right here.

Q Okay. What file, please?

A The file is called PR55DTLR.csv.

Q Okay. And what was the search that you did on that file?

A The search was -- and I'm going to paraphrase the SQL otherwise you'd be sitting here for quite a long time and bored to tears, maybe more bored than you already are. Select the count of or the number of shifts with the total accumulated time for hourly pay of an individual on a work day equaled less than 120 minutes. And the pay code was not pay code 630, 631, 682 or 899.

Q Okay. Then on paragraph 19 you reached a conclusion that there were 300 -- or excuse me --34,096 shifts where the employees were not paid hourly but were paid only exclusively on piece rate. Correct, that's your conclusion?

A That is my conclusion.

Q Then paragraph 20 you reach a conclusion with respect to minimum wage; right?

A Well, I reach one conclusion, two conclusions, three -- three -- two conclusions there? I mean how many conclusions -- which conclusion do you want to know about on paragraph 20?

Q Paragraph 20 and 21 you reached some conclusions about minimum wage.

A Yes.

Q Did you verify or check any of those conclusions against the payroll register data that you were supplied?

A I did not check all 24,225 work days against your payroll register because your payroll register only contains the sums of hours and does not provide a detailed breakdown of those hours.

Q Did you do any checking to verify your conclusion, any conclusions you made with respect to minimum wage against any payroll register data?

A The payroll provides a sum of the hours and the pay and the piece rate paid. The payroll does not contain a breakdown of the number of days and the number of hours, so it would have been obscurified by the fact that a payroll contains a sum. You have to look at individual days worked.

Q Look, you know, you have an explanation, but you need to answer the question yes or no. If you didn't do it, I'll let you explain why you didn't do it. So just answer yes or no. Did you verify or check in any way your conclusions with respect to minimum wage against the payroll data?

A There is no way to.

Q Okay. Then the answer is no; correct?

A Well, it's not no. I think you're asking me --

Q The answer is no because there is no way to; is that right?

A There is not a way to as your data is provided.

Q Then the answer is no because you don't think there is a way to; right?

A Well, I take -- I take your output of payroll --

Q Look. I'll withdraw the question.

I don't know how I can be any clearer. There may be all kinds of reasons why you didn't do it, including the data didn't let you do it. It's a simple question. Did you verify your minimum wage opinion against any payroll register data supplied to you by Sunview or Mr. Stone --

A Yes.

Q -- in concluding that data?

A Yes.

Q Okay. What did you do?

A The payroll register is an accumulation of the days worked that are provided in this PR55DTLR file as represented by your company, your client's company. So if the constituent components of a paycheck are to be taken at face value as an accumulation of hours that matches payroll, I can only assume that the constituent components are correct. And therefore, if a payroll paycheck says that a number of hours worked and the number of hours -- or the pay is in concurrence with the underlying detail, I have to assume on face value that it's correct.

Q So did you check your conclusions about minimum wage with the payroll data register supplied to you in this case?

A Is the answer not sufficient what I just said?

Q I have no idea what you said. I'm just use -- it's for the record. But look, people get checks. There are pay stubs. Did you look at any pay stub for any employee in this case?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Did you look at any pay stub at all?

A Yes.

Q Did you find any pay stub that showed the employee was not paid minimum wage?

A The pay stubs --

Q The answer is yes or no. Did you look at any pay stub that showed to you that the employee was not paid at minimum wage? Yes or no?

A The pay stubs are in concurrence with the detail that shows that the employees were not paid minimum wage.

Q Can you answer my question. Did you look at any pay stub that told you that employees were not paid minimum wage? Yes or no?

A Yes.

Q Perfect. Thank you.

Let's go to lunch.

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This ends media No. 1 in the deposition of Aaron Woolfson. Off the record at 12:33 p.m.

(Lunch recess taken.)

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at 1:47 p.m. This is the beginning of media No. 2 in the deposition of Aaron Woolfson.


Q Mr. Woolfson, I'm looking at Exhibit 3. Does Exhibit 3 contain your billing records in this case?

A I'm looking at -- you are looking at Exhibit 3, and I assume that it does.

Q I'll give you the cover. This is Exhibit 3. That's your billing records?

A Yes, that's my billing records.

Q I've gone through them quickly. It looks like through the writing of your report, which apparently generated the bill on April, end of April or so, you spent about 20 to 25 hours on the case through the end of April?

A I would have to add it up.

Q Well, I don't -- it doesn't have to be added up to a tenth of an hour, but --

A If you're satisfied with the answer being yes, I trust that's the amount of hours that you ballparked.

Q So is that a reasonable estimate of hours between the time that you were retained as an expert in this case and the time you wrote your report, somewhere in the neighborhood of 20-25 hours is what it took you to generate this report; right?

A That's pretty ambiguous because you just said between the time you were retained and writing this report. I would say I put 20 to 25 hours into the analysis -- the preparation, analysis, introduction of data into database and writing of the report, yes.

Q Okay.

You mentioned in the morning session that you talked to somebody you thought was a representative of Sunview. Do you have notes that reference the people that were on that call?

A I do not have notes beyond what is attached to one of these invoices as to who was on the call. I don't remember the names of the people who were on the call. I'm sorry.

Q I'm giving you the notes that's attached to Exhibit 3. Does that tell you whether you ever talked to any person who was employed by Sunview?

A Well, I had -- I was on a call.

Q Right. You were on a call. You said you thought on a call you talked to somebody who was employed by Sunview. I want to know -- I want to be able to find out who you -- well, first of all, can you identify anybody you've talked to who you think was employed by Sunview ever?

A I cannot identify by name. I only had one very brief telephone call with their IT people on the phone. And they -- and that they stated that this is a system that was developed 15 years ago, ran under -- it was originally it was using Dec Alpha equipment. I believe that that is the extent of -- and then of course the notes related to the way that the data was structured, but I don't know the name of the individual I was on the phone with.

Q Okay. Well, how do you -- why do you think it was somebody who was employed by Sunview as opposed to a lawyer at Morgan Lewis or anybody else?

A Because they were very specific computer-related terms that resonated with me as being someone -- terms that someone who is very knowledgeable with IT would use. I can't say with certainty that they weren't an attorney who was purporting to be with the IT department at Sunview.

Q Okay. Do you know a name Eric Meckley?

He's an attorney. He's not with the IT department at Sunview by any stretch of the imagination, but he talked to you on the phone. Do you recall that? Do you recall Eric Meckley talked to you?

A I don't recall the name, but I do recall that there was a separate conversation that I was present where an attorney was there when I said that I couldn't read this data with a PC and that we needed to have specific information as to how this data was produced.

Q Right. Okay.

A But that wasn't this call.

Q So you think that you may have had a brief conversation with somebody employed by Sunview who discussed the data in some respect with you; right?

A I can say with a high degree of certainty that there was a discussion about an -- or a set of data and how that data was structured within the system.

Q How long did the call last?

A Oh, probably no more than 20 -- 20 minutes. I mean, I can find out exactly what date --

Q Who placed the call?

A I believe it was a conference call that was initiated by plaintiff counsel.

Q Aside from that one call, can you think of any time that you ever talked with anybody from Sunview to have them explain data to you?

A All communication after that call, to the best of my knowledge, has been from plaintiff counsel who would have relayed any information to me.

Q Okay. Good. So aside from that one call, all the data you got that explained to you the Sunview data was and how it should be interpreted came to you from plaintiff counsel; correct?

A Plaintiff -- plaintiff counsel I don't think played a role in how to interpret the data because the methods and procedures I've used, which I've used on numerous cases, are -- are formulas and SQL statements that I myself have come up with.

Q Good. So I wasn't trying to suggest they did.

So the plaintiffs' lawyers didn't tell you what was in the Sunview data or tell you how to interpret it; right? Or did they?

A No, they did not tell me how to interpret it. They only asked me to -- well, in my report I disclude that the codes that, specific codes, and I followed their direction.

Q How did you know how Sunview was using the codes that it coded the data in that you got?

A Well --

MR. MALLISON: Objection. Vague.

THE WITNESS: How did I know that they were encoding --BY MR. MOLLAND:

Q No. The question was, how did you know what the different pay codes were in the data you received from Sunview?

A There was a list provided to me that I provided to you this morning.

Q Is that on Exhibit 2?

A That's Exhibit 2.

Q So except for that particular list that's on Exhibit 2, you had no information to know how Sunview interpreted or used the pay codes in the codes you got; right? I'm not trying to confuse you.

A No, no, I --

Q I'm trying to understand why you think you know how Sunview used the pay codes in the data you've interpreted. You've told me the plaintiffs' counsel didn't tell you how to interpret it, and you've told me you had a brief phone call with a Sunview person you thought who was connected with the IT division of Sunview for 20 minutes, and you told me that you looked at Exhibit 2. Are there any other sources that told you how Sunview used the pay codes in the data that they gave you?

A This document is very comprehensive.

Q Will you please answer my question? You can talk about Exhibit 2. You have Exhibit 2.

A Okay.

Q So I'm just trying to get the list. Okay?

A Okay.

Q Please just --

A But --

Q I'll let you explain as much as you want to once you've answered the question.

A Right. But someone who is reading a transcript after this deposition isn't going to see a simple yes or no and be able to understand that in the context of what's been done.

Q Well, I'll let you --

A And I'd have to --

Q I promise I'll let you. But I have to know this. I don't know if I'm wasting time or not unless you say yes or no to my questions.

A It's really important for both your defendants and for my clients to --

Q Don't lecture me, please.

A I'm not --

Q Just answer my question. I don't mind you explaining your answer, but I don't know whether the answer is yes or no given your answers to my questions and I'm entitled to a yes or no, an affirmative or a negative, and an explanation, and you can explain.

But I have a really simple set of questions. It shouldn't take very long. I just want to know the sources of information that told you how Sunview used the pay codes in the data you used to form your opinion. And you told me you had a brief phone call with somebody, you think it came from Sunview. You think that you looked at Exhibit 2. And those are the only sources of information you've told me. Now, the question is simple. Are there any others, yes or no? And if there are, tell me all about them.

MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object. This is a lecture. Let him answer your question. I understand you want to get to an answer. It may not be yes or no. It doesn't have to be yes or no. And it may be the question doesn't make sense.


Q Well, that's okay. You can say that too.

A Okay. I have to -- one of the things that's really important is that --

Q No, look, I'm asking you a question. Can you have the question read? I'm going to repeat the question. I don't need a lecture. I don't need your psychoanalysis.

A Hey --

Q I just need to get some information.

A -- listen, I'm not hired here as a psychoanalyst.

Q You're psychoanalyzing yourself.

A No, I'm absolutely not. I'm absolutely trying to answer your question.

Q Okay.

A Okay.

Q Did you look at any sources of information to understand how Sunview uses pay codes besides Exhibit 2?

A Look on the whiteboard.

Q Pardon me?

A I'm asking you to please look at the document that's on the whiteboard. Does that explain how those fields are used?

Q Okay. So you looked at that document. What document? Can you identify that document?

A It's PR55DTLRlayout.pdf.

Q So you looked at that document to understand how Sunview uses pay codes. Any other documents besides that document you just described and Exhibit 2 that you used to figure out how Sunview uses pay codes?

A Other than performing tests on the data that's contained in the PR55DTLR.csv and comparing that with the pay stubs to make sure that I was interpreting those codes correctly, no.

Q Thank you.

So, and the only person that whose words you heard or testimony you have relied upon is this person that you talked to and briefly in a telephone conference, who you can't remember, who also told you something about the pay codes, is that right, or didn't they tell you anything about the pay codes?

A There was no discussion what the pay codes were on that. However, I relied extensively on the document marked Confidential Sunview Vineyards of California, Exhibit 2, as part of my analysis.

Q When you took a look at the pay stubs, and you did take a look at the pay stubs that Sunview actually paid their employees; right?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Did you find any pay stubs that showed the amount of money that any employee was ever paid was below minimum wage for the hours that were reported on the pay stub?

MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object. That calls for a legal conclusion. It's kind of nonsensical too in a wage stub in California.

THE WITNESS: Yeah, my -- the scope of my analysis is to compare the data that Sunview produced, your clients' data against sets of inquiries that are provided by the attorneys. One of the queries that I ran was a minimum wage analysis for straight minimum wage. I will show you numerous examples of what I believe to be --BY MR. MOLLAND:

Q Okay. But remember, my question isn't asking for numerous examples. It's a simple question. Did you look at any pay stubs where you found that on the pay stubs Sunview had not paid minimum wage for the hours worked the employee?

A Yes.

Q Okay. Can you show me any pay stubs which illustrate that finding in your data? Do you have any data, do you have any records, do you have any documents you can produce that would show me any pay stub where Sunview, in your opinion, did not pay the employee minimum wage for the hours worked?

MR. MALLISON: I'm going to make the same objection. It calls for a legal conclusion. Also, it misses the point of his analysis which is to -- well, I won't detail that any further.

THE WITNESS: I could point out numerous examples of where an employee was not paid minimum wage.


Q No, that's not my question.

A Okay.

Q My question is -- you said you looked at pay stubs, okay. So I'm asking whether you can show me any pay stub that you looked at in the data you provided where Sunview didn't pay that employee minimum wage in that pay stub?

A I would have to look. However, there are numerous examples as such as on the board overhead right now showing a 6.50 pay rate during which the minimum wage was 6.75. Now, beyond the scope of what I just stated, I'm not a lawyer, I can't draw a legal conclusion. I can only say what's evidenced in the data. That file is PRREG2002.pdf.

Q Okay, and you have brought something up here. Just pick out -- there is a number of employees there that you have brought up on the screen for purposes of this deposition to illustrate why you think any one of those guys wasn't paid minimum wage. Why don't you just pick one on that screen you've shown me as an example and tell me why -- pick out a guy and explain to me why you don't think he was paid minimum wage.

So just pick one out. Mr. Lopez, Mr. Sanchez. I'll let you pick out the one you think illustrates your point the best.

A Mr. Sanchez is a good example.

Q Okay. Let's pick out Mr. Sanchez. Now, you have picked something out on the board that shows Mr. Sanchez. Let's see, is there a date on that? I don't see a date. But any rate, why don't you tell me why you think Mr. Sanchez wasn't paid minimum wage based on the example that you showed me.

MR. MALLISON: There's a check number there.

MR. MOLLAND: There's a check number. What's the check number? 6726- --

MR. STEPHENS: 72623.

MR. MOLLAND: 7- --


Q Oh, there's two Mr. Sanchezes. That's interesting. Which Sanchez are you talking about, Jose or Luz?

A Let's look at Jose.

Q Okay. Jose. That's check number 72623, so we can pick that out. You tell me why you think Mr. Jose Sanchez wasn't paid minimum wage in that time period based on that information.

MR. MALLISON: Objection. It's not a pay period. This is a day.

MR. MOLLAND: I don't know what it is. He can tell me.

Q Why do you think Mr. Sanchez wasn't paid minimum wage?

A My instructions were simply to look at --

Q No, I'm just asking you why.

A I mean --

MR. MALLISON: Objection. It calls for a legal conclusion.

THE WITNESS: It doesn't matter what I think --BY MR. MOLLAND:

Q I'm not asking for your instructions. I am asking for the reason that you believe Mr. Sanchez wasn't paid minimum wage.

A I am not an expert in minimum wage. I am an expert in database analysis. All right? So you have to let me answer the question related to database analysis because if my testimony isn't good then you're not getting the benefit of the money your defendants are paying me to be here today.

Q Believe me, I don't think I'm getting the benefit of the money that I'm getting paid to take your deposition today simply because you're not answering my question.

So my question is this: Tell me all the reasons, the reasons why you think based upon the data and the payroll stub 726 -- 72623 -- you think Mr. Sanchez wasn't paid minimum wage. And I know you're not an expert in minimum wage --

A Right.

Q -- but you are expressing an opinion in your report about it, so I need to find out what it is.

MR. MALLISON: Objection. Objection. You're misstating his testimony. He is expressing what he found in the data and what his SQL searches are. The conclusion as to whether they are paid minimum wage for a day or a week is not in here. And you're asking for a legal conclusion.


Q Go ahead. What's your reason why you think that the example you have on the board shows us that Jose Sanchez wasn't paid minimum wage?

A Well, this is a good question. How do you know that I don't think he was paid minimum wage? It doesn't matter what I think. I was asked to do a query. The query was to say number of hours at a particular hourly rate as a -- as a function of how many shifts on a straight hourly rate were paid a certain hourly rate.

Q Okay. So how does Mr. Sanchez's pay factor into that?

A It says right here 6.50 an hour. I'm not looking at anything but the pay rate at that particular time.

Q So your opinion is because apparently you think that the pay rate of 6.50 an hour was not minimum wage at the time; right?

A Well, I don't think. I'm just telling you that that's what I was told.

Q Okay.

And does the entry there show payment by a day or payment by a week?

A Well, the paychecks appear to be -- well, it's irrelevant. It just says -- it just says a pay rate 6.50. I mean, that's not -- if they were being paid by the week or by the day or by the month it still says 6.50.

Q Okay. I think I'm getting this now.

So go to your opinion on page 6 which is item

20. Your opinion is that 12.52 percent of the shifts show a pay rate below minimum wage. That's based upon the fact that you see data that these guys weren't paid on a particular day minimum wage 12.5 -- excuse me -- 12.52 percent of the time. Right? Is that your opinion? Is that what that's based on?

A What this says is that -- I can read it exactly. My testimony is that 24,225 or 6.1 percent of -- of the 39 -- 391,276 shifts worked that had an hourly rate below minimum wage still did not meet minimum wage, as it was expressed to me that minimum wage should be, even if the piece rate is applied to the worker's day.

Q I got you. So you calculated this by the day, right, by the shift per day?

A By the day.

Q Okay. Did you make any attempt to see what Sunview paid these people by the week?

MR. MALLISON: Objection. It calls for a legal conclusion.


Q I don't know, how is that a legal conclusion? Did you make an attempt to figure out how much these guys were paid by Sunview per week as opposed to per day?

MR. MALLISON: Objection. It misstates the testimony as well.

THE WITNESS: I was not asked to look at shifts like a group of, say, 7 shifts on an entire week. I was asked to look at daily shifts as data was provided by, and I was asked by counsel to look at that, so --BY MR. MOLLAND:

Q Now, let's go back to my question. Do you know how Sunview actually paid these guys? Did they pay them every day, did they pay them some money? Or did they pay them by a pay period?

A I don't know if they paid them by check or by direct deposit or otherwise. I don't know if they paid them by what period. I'm just looking at days and the shifts that occurred on those days. That's what I was asked to look at.

Q So when I asked you a question about a pay stub, what do you think a pay stub is? Don't you think that's a stub that's attached to a check for payment over a certain period for an employee?

A But you see I'm not -- I'm not -- I'm looking at what your data says they were paid on an hourly rate. That's a -- it's a -- it's not saying what they were paid over, you know, a period of time as an average hourly rate. What it says right here, it says, I mean, I just highlighted it on the screen, 6.50.

Q That's great.

A I mean, it doesn't --

Q So do you have any idea of how any of the workers were actually paid at Sunview? Do you know how they were paid?

A I wasn't asked to look at and analyze how they were paid.

Q So the answer is no; right?

A Well --

MR. MALLISON: Objection. Vague. I mean, it doesn't make sense what you're asking him. How they're paid, what does that mean?


Q Do you have any idea whatsoever of how Sunview workers were paid in any respect, either by period or by mechanism?

A It was not part of my analysis.

Q So the answer is no; correct?

MR. MALLISON: Objection as to how. BY MR. MOLLAND:

Q It's not part of your analysis, and you didn't do it; right?

[1000]   A Well, you're asking me if I am aware of or if it was part of my analysis. I'm not telling you what I'm opining about. I'm telling you what I testified to and wrote in my expert report.

[1001]   Q My question is a different question. See if you can answer it.

[1002]   A Okay.

[1003]   Q Do you know how -- the pay period for any Sunview employee? Do you know what the pay period was for any Sunview employee? Do you know what the pay period was for any Sunview employee? Do you know that?

[1004]   MR. MALLISON: Is that compound or just multiple times?

[1005]   THE WITNESS: It would be very easy to extrapolate.

[1006]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1007]   Q Do you know that? Was that part of your assignment? Did you do that in your report?

[1008]   A It was not part of my assignment to write a report on pay periods or duration of work that appears on a particular paycheck.

[1009]   Q So it would be fair to say you don't know whether Sunview paid minimum wage to their employees during any particular pay period. You didn't do that analysis, did you?

[1010]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. Misstates testimony.

[1011]   THE WITNESS: My task was very specific to analyzing the daily pay -- the daily time data that your clients provided to my clients. That's it.

[1012]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1013]   Q Did you analyze that data for any particular pay period for any particular employee? Yes or no?

[1014]   A It was not within the scope of what I was asked to do. The answer then is no.

[1015]   Q So the answer is -- how can you not say no to that? It's just incredible.

[1016]   A Because you're asking --

[1017]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. You're misstating his testimony, and you're missing the point.

[1018]   MR. MOLLAND: I'm not misstating his testimony at all.

[1019]   MR. MALLISON: Absolutely. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1020]   Q The deposition is going to go so much quicker. There are some things you did and some things you didn't do. Just admit what you didn't do, it's no big deal. The stuff that you did I'll ask you questions about. The stuff you didn't do you can't testify about, but we'll save a lot of time, so just tell me no.

[1021]   A Okay. But I can testify about the things that I did do. And I really want this to be --

[1022]   Q Absolutely you can. You can.

[1023]   A And this is -- and we're on the same -- we're on the same -- as a data expert we are on the same team. If I do a good job, I am doing just as much of a good job for you as I am for him. That's the cool thing about being a data expert because if the data shows there's nothing here, then the data shows there's nothing here. I'm not trying to play hide the ball from you. I think you think I'm trying to play hide the ball.

[1024]   Q Of course you are.

[1025]   A I'm not. I'm not playing hide the ball. This is my 47th case that I've worked on. I've been down this road before. I've been to this dance. I understand.

[1026]   Q I'm not asking how many cases you've worked on.

[1027]   A Okay.

[1028]   Q I'm just trying to get some answers to my questions, not answers to other issues that I'm not asking about.

[1029]   So, we've established now you haven't looked at any particular pay period, okay, to analyze minimum wage. I asked you earlier if you have looked at any pay stubs from checks given to Sunview employees, okay. The answer to that question is no, you haven't, have you?

[1030]   A I've looked at reports that have been generated by Sunview that are based upon the underlying data that Sunview provided in that CSV file.

[1031]   Q So show me something in the data that you looked at that is a report of a pay period for any employee by Sunview where Sunview issued a check to that employee. Can you?

[1032]   A This is a -- on the screen is a report of the pay stubs.

[1033]   Q Oh, I get it. You think that's a pay stub. Is that what you think?

[1034]   A No, I think it's a report showing the paychecks and the summary of the checks.

[1035]   Q Okay, we're fine. So basically --

[1036]   A This is just a sum of the data that appears in that CSV file.

[1037]   Q That's exactly what I want to get from you. So you think if you sum up the data that appears, that's on the board right now, you put it in a pay period, it will just be the sum. So you take the sum of all those days and you can calculate minimum wage; is that your opinion?

[1038]   A No, I'm calculating minimum wage based upon what you guys put in that CSV file based upon pay rate that was being paid on that particular date.

[1039]   Q Mr. Woolfson, you don't know that -- there was a pay period in there that was a accelerator for minimum wage so Sunview would be sure to pay minimum wage in that payroll period. You don't even know where it is, do you?

[1040]   A There is an accelerate in there? Is there a field called Accelerator?

[1041]   Q Do you know that there's a pay code that was designed to make sure everybody would be paid minimum wage in any pay period?

[1042]   A Well, it doesn't manifest in your data here.

[1043]   Q Look at the pay codes. Do you have the pay codes in front of you?

[1044]   A Yeah.

[1045]   Q Can you pick out the pay code that Sunview used to make sure they would pay minimum wage to all their employees in any given pay period?

[1046]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. It assumes facts not in evidence.

[1047]   THE WITNESS: So any particular pay period versus on a daily basis which is the -- which the pay period is the sum of the data that appears in that CSV.

[1048]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1049]   Q Yes.

[1050]   A You just said pay period.

[1051]   Q That's correct.

[1052]   A But you guys gave us the daily pay logs. So is there another file that I don't have?

[1053]   Q No.

[1054]   A There's not. So where would this appear because --

[1055]   Q In other words, you don't know where it would appear.

[1056]   A Well, no.

[1057]   MR. MALLISON: It doesn't exist is what he's saying.

[1058]   THE WITNESS: What I am saying is that you guys, you guys are saying there is a pay period --there's a pay code -- I'm going to state back exactly what you told me. There's a pay code that ensures that an employee on a paycheck as an aggregate of all their daily time worked is an accelerator, a multiplier, to make sure that they receive as an aggregate more than minimum wage over that pay period. I'm not here to define the legal requirements of what makes minimum wage, if that can be over a pay period or if it's on a daily basis. I don't know. I'm asked to look at daily time logs. And it seems to me that if there is an accelerator that should be in there, and it's not here, then you guys didn't produce data. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1059]   Q So can you turn to paragraph 19?

[1060]   A Sure.

[1061]   MR. MALLISON: Actually, I'd like to get that straightened out. Have you failed to produce some data?

[1062]   MR. MOLLAND: No. You failed to interpret it correctly, but we haven't --

[1063]   MR. MALLISON: I don't think that's correct actually.

[1064]   MR. MOLLAND: Well, we'll find out.

[1065]   MR. MALLISON: I guess we will. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1066]   Q Let's go to paragraph 19. You say that there were 34,096 shifts where employees were paid exclusively piece rate -- exclusively on a piece rate basis. Right?

[1067]   A Yes.

[1068]   Q Can you show me any data that you produced that would back up that statement that there is even one employee who was paid at any one time exclusively on a piece-rate work basis?

[1069]   A I could show you if I had SQL loaded on one of these machines and in front of me, sure.

[1070]   Q Can you do it based on the data that you have supplied?

[1071]   A I think there is a spreadsheet that shows that.

[1072]   Q Okay, good. Why don't you see if you can find the data.

[1073]   A Where is -- there we go. Okay, let's see here. Let's see if I can find it here. No, there is a number of subminimum. Well, I don't have the -- here's the formulas that I found that actually -- here's the formulas that actually would identify that. This is just a summary sheet, but would show that on January 22, 2002, there were 26 employees who were paid exclusively on piece rate. You know, it goes on.

[1074]   Q What file do you have there, please?

[1075]   A It's called Minimum Wage At Or Above Versus Subminimum Versus Piece Rate Only. This was an ad hoc report that I did for Mr. Steve Fernandez.

[1076]   Q Okay. Can you go back to -- go back just a little bit so we can identify that file so we can take a look at that.

[1077]   A Sure.

[1078]   Q This doesn't look like original Sunview data. It looks like something that you generated from Sunview data. Right?

[1079]   A Well, it's Sunview -- it's Sunview data that's just stated in a summary, in a summarized manner so that someone who is an attorney can read it. But this is called An Interesting Study. The reason I named it that was because that's what Steve -- that's what Mr. -- was it Hernandez or was it Tom Lynch? Let me just check and see. Yeah, it would have been Steve Hernandez. He said, "Let's run an interesting study." That was his words, not mine. So I said let's just name it that. And that was produced on April 20, 2011, and this is a summary that's attached to that e-mail, it's on the CSV drive, and it's called At Or Above Minimum Versus Subminimum Wage Versus Piece Rate Only.

[1080]   Q Okay. Well, if someone was going to say, and someone probably will, that you misinterpreted the data to -- somehow made the mistake to think that some people at Sunview were paid by piece rate only when in fact that never occurred, is there anything in Sunview data that you would rely upon to show that you were right and the people that were saying that was wrong?

[1081]   A There's codes in your data that show that somebody was paid on piece rate and that there is no corresponding hourly rate or there's hours with a $0 per hour rate.

[1082]   Q Can you pick out one example of that in the Sunview data? Just one example.

[1083]   MR. MALLISON: You need to provide him with a copy of SQL because you keep asking for examples, and that's the only way he's going to find it.

[1084]   MR. MOLLAND: I don't know. I mean --

[1085]   THE WITNESS: Yeah, you don't know? BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1086]   Q I believe what you're saying is you --

[1087]   A I've got a -- I've got a --

[1088]   Q -- that I can't give you an example because we don't have any. All right.

[1089]   A Really?

[1090]   Q You're just wrong about it. So --

[1091]   A Well, I beg to differ.

[1092]   Q So I'm interested to know whether you have any examples that would show the contrary.

[1093]   A Let me -- let me -- if you're so confident -- I mean, I'm just producing a report that a fact-finder, a judge or jury can find and say this is or this isn't. I could certainly demonstrate. I have a computer here that has a 65,000 row limit in Excel in front of me. I don't have SQL here. I don't have -- the file that you guys have produced, this .csv that contains detail has millions of rows in it. I could spend a couple of hours finding you all the examples. I could also send you exactly where it happened.

[1094]   Q All right. That's fair enough.

[1095]   A I mean, the point is it's there. This isn't my first experience doing data analysis. And I've done a lot more complicated data analysis as well, so this is a fairly -- this is a fairly straightforward set of data compared with a lot I've done. And those have certified.

[1096]   Q Let me ask you this. If you are just flat wrong on the minimum wage analysis that you did, would that cause you to have concerns about the other analysis that you did for other work in your report?

[1097]   A No. No.

[1098]   Q How about if you were just flat wrong on interpreting the data and --

[1099]   A I would tell you.

[1100]   Q -- and there were people -- and you realized that there wasn't anybody at Sunview who worked on piece rate only exclusively, would that cause you to question your judgment as to how you interpreted this data?

[1101]   A Well, if your data is showing that there is no piece rate only employees, and I calculated that there are employees who were working on piece rate on a per day basis, I'd want to know about it, and I'd want to make it -- I'd want to supplement a dec- --supplemental -- provide a supplemental declaration to either redact or to adjust. But that's a big if. I don't --

[1102]   Q And let's assume that your overtime calculation, we could demonstrate conclusively your overtime calculation is flawed because you just didn't interpret the Sunview data correctly, would that cause you to reanalyze your entire report?

[1103]   A Not my entire report. I think that's a big if because I think you're asking for me to make legal qualifications based upon things that are beyond my --the expertise for which I was hired. My expertise is in database analysis. I'm only analyzing the data that you provided.

[1104]   MR. MOLLAND: Could you mark the next exhibit, please?

[1105]   (Deposition Exhibit 5 marked by the court reporter.)

[1106]   MR. MOLLAND: It's Exhibit 5.

[1107]   THE WITNESS: Okay.

[1108]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1109]   Q This is a --

[1110]   MR. MALLISON: Can I get a copy of that?

[1111]   MR. MOLLAND: Of course. I'm sorry.

[1112]   Q By the way, is this the first time you have ever analyzed data that came to you in a format of IBM AS-400?

[1113]   A No. The data that comes to me is typically generated on any number of systems in any number of formats, but typically defendants will always provide it to me in a CSV format that makes it consistent with an IBM PC compatible computer that I can easily open and import into Microsoft SQL.

[1114]   Q My question is, is this the first time you've dealt with data that in its native format was on a IBM AS-400 format?

[1115]   A No.

[1116]   Q So how many other times have you done that?

[1117]   A Probably three or four.

[1118]   Q Can you list the cases, please, or list the attorneys?

[1119]   A I don't know which cases off the top of my head, but I have worked with -- I mean, in 20 years of working with data I have definitely dealt with data that was in an AS-400 format.

[1120]   Q Okay. I'm going to give you an example of one. This is a -- first of all, do you recognize this as a printout from the Sunview payroll database?

[1121]   A Well, I --

[1122]   MR. MALLISON: Objection.

[1123]   THE WITNESS: I mean, I'm just going to trust that you are showing me data that's in a Sunview database. I can't authenticate it in any way.

[1124]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1125]   Q Well, does the format of this look different to you in some respect?

[1126]   A Well, when I show it on my computer -- I mean, if I look at it right here on this laptop that you have graciously provided for our use today, it looks a little bit different, sure.

[1127]   Q I'll represent to you this is data from the Sunview database concerning one employee with a social security number that is there for one work week.

[1128]   Okay?

[1129]   A Okay.

[1130]   Q How does your program define shifts for this data?

[1131]   A Well, this --

[1132]   MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object. There is no indication this is actually true and correct data or it's complete. I don't see any of the indicators here necessary to do this. Why don't we just use the real data, we have it right here. We have these sheets right here.

[1133]   MR. MOLLAND: Yeah.

[1134]   MR. MALLISON: Is that agreed? Are you agreeing to that?

[1135]   MR. MOLLAND: If you have an objection, make it.

[1136]   MR. MALLISON: I do have an objection. I'm objecting to the use of this. It's not authenticated.

[1137]   MR. MOLLAND: I hear you. It's on the record.

[1138]   THE WITNESS: This to me looks like 5 --3-4-5-6-7 -- 3-4-5-6-7 -- 5 consecutive days of work. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1139]   Q So it would be five shifts.

[1140]   A That would be -- well, the way you have them listed it's actually listed as six shift segments which becomes five -- what I would call five shifts with one of the shifts being worked at two different blocks.

[1141]   Q What use do you make of pay code 21?

[1142]   A Well, pay code 21 is not in this list here. However, if I'm served correct from what Tom Lynch told me, 21 is a piece-rate activity that defines a -- let's see if there is a job here -- Ardeen (phonetic) block -- that defines something as paid per item.

[1143]   Q Okay. Let's go to Exhibit 6.

[1144]   (Deposition Exhibit 6 marked by the court reporter.)

[1145]   MR. MALLISON: I have the same objection to this exhibit. It's not authenticated. And we have the actual data here. There is no use in -- reason to be using this. This is misleading.

[1146]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1147]   Q So I have the same question for this. How many shifts are in this data?

[1148]   A Well -- do you mind if I take the staple out to align this?

[1149]   Q I don't.

[1150]   A Okay.

[1151]   Don't drink out of that cup.

[1152]   I'm going to move this a little bit. Let's see here. Why are these different? Yeah, I want to say that -- you asked me what pay code 21 is earlier on Exhibit 5.

[1153]   Q Sure.

[1154]   A Pay code 21, it's really pay type that one should be looking at. "I" for individual piece rate rather than the pay code. Pay type is -- pay type H is hourly, pay type I is piece rate according to Tom Lynch.

[1155]   Q Mr. Lynch is the plaintiffs' attorney; right?

[1156]   A I hope so.

[1157]   Q And Mr. Lynch told you how to interpret the pay codes; right?

[1158]   A Well, Mr. Lynch told me that was -- that was one of the codes that you guys used.

[1159]   Q Okay. So your knowledge about at least pay code 11 and 21 come from Mr. Lynch; right?

[1160]   A No, pay type, H and I. You asked me earlier how I interpreted pay codes and I -- or not pay codes but the job -- the job codes. I told you I used this. Pay codes -- types -- pay types are information that I got from Mr. Lynch.

[1161]   Q All right.

[1162]   A Okay. So I want to make it real clear where we got those different things.

[1163]   Q So how many shifts -- let's just start --start from the beginning. How many shifts in example 2?

[1164]   MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object these are out of order. This is a needless puzzle the way it is laid out.

[1165]   THE WITNESS: Yeah, this is really puzzling.

[1166]   MR. MALLISON: Why did you resort these?

[1167]   THE WITNESS: Yeah, this is puzzling to the extent that you resorted them and put them out of chronological order, date order. I will --BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1168]   Q I will represent to you these are -- this is a work period for a particular employee.

[1169]   A It doesn't matter. What you're showing me here is in chronological date order. What you're showing me here is out of chronological date order. I will just say that I think that's -- I don't think it's above board, I'll just say that.

[1170]   Q Why do you think it's out of chronological order?

[1171]   A Because the date that these appear in is the third column from the right is out of order. You know, I don't -- yeah, I --

[1172]   Q How is it out of order? It looks to me like it's actually in order.

[1173]   A Okay, that's -- I'm just going to let you --

[1174]   Q 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th. Excuse me.

[1175]   A What are you -- I think you're looking at the previous. No?

[1176]   MR. MALLISON: Are you looking at Example 2? BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1177]   Q Oh, excuse me. I mean, they don't -- I don't get it. They look chronological to me. They start at 15 and they end at 26.

[1178]   A Yeah.

[1179]   Q All right. So how is this not chronological?

[1180]   A What's after 3924? 317 -- 3917.

[1181]   Q That actually gets to one of my questions, sir.

[1182]   A Okay.

[1183]   Q You're anticipating one of my questions.

[1184]   A Well, let's --

[1185]   Q With the exception of that one date they are in chronological order; right? We're going to get to --

[1186]   A Yeah, I --

[1187]   Q Sir, we're going to get to --

[1188]   A You know what, I'm amazed. I'm really, really amazed. I think that's -- I think that -- I don't know. Okay. It doesn't matter what I think. You're deposing me, and I'll answer your question.

[1189]   Q Well, the question that's pending is how many shifts are there?

[1190]   A I would feel most comfortable looking at these in chronological order.

[1191]   Q Sir, how can they not be in chronological order?

[1192]   A You just told me that they're not, and that's one of your questions. And now you're asking me how they can't be in chronological order. You've got to play -- you can't play it both ways, man. You're just not --

[1193]   Q You start with the 15th; right?

[1194]   A Okay. Let's go down item by item here.

[1195]   Q Sure.

[1196]   A Okay. 15, next is 16.

[1197]   Q Right.

[1198]   A 17, 18, 19, 23 -- ah -- 22, 24, 17, 25.

[1199]   Q Okay. And does that -- what does that tell you, that there is some basic problem in interpreting how many shifts there are in that data?

[1200]   A No, what it tells me is that you're providing me something that is in a printed form that programmatically it certainly is not an issue because we sort and we paginate things according to shift order, and the way that SQL works it just deals with it. But what I'm saying is that if you're -- you're putting data in front of me and you're saying it's not out of chronological order, and then you're saying it is, and that gets to another question, and you're saying it's not. I'm just -- I'm not following what you're getting at here. Do you want me to provide you with an answer on how many shifts I think occurred on each day?

[1201]   Q Yes.

[1202]   A Okay. So let's see here. H on the 16th. H on the 17th, H on the 18th, H on the 19th -- this is 215. Paul Aves (phonetic).

[1203]   THE REPORTER: May I go off the record for just a moment while he is doing this, because I think he is just kind of talking to himself.

[1204]   THE WITNESS: Oh, I'm not even -- I'm sorry. I wasn't even --

[1205]   MR. MALLISON: Mumbling.

[1206]   THE WITNESS: -- talking. Was I mumbling?

[1207]   THE REPORTER: Yes.

[1208]   THE WITNESS: Sorry, guys.

[1209]   MR. MALLISON: Are you going to be a while?

[1210]   THE WITNESS: I am going to be a while. I have to sit here and look.

[1211]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1212]   Q Basically it's difficult for you to come up with a number of shifts without adding up numbers here?

[1213]   A Well, without having a SQL database I'm not as a -- I could do it. I could certainly do it.

[1214]   Q I'll withdraw the question, then.

[1215]   I'm going to ask you this: How did you understand pay code 10? What's pay code 10?

[1216]   A Well, pay type H and job 215 would mean that they were paid 2 hours for pulling leaves.

[1217]   Q Pardon me?

[1218]   A Two hours for pulling leaves on the date of the 17th, 9-17-2003.

[1219]   Q Okay. So let's just go down that line where it starts at row 5727. That's row 5727; right?

[1220]   A Um-hm.

[1221]   Q We have a social security number of the employee; right?

[1222]   A Right.

[1223]   Q We have a crew number; right?

[1224]   A Right.

[1225]   Q We have a pay code 10.

[1226]   A Yes.

[1227]   Q And what do you understand pay code 10 to be?

[1228]   A Well, I -- I used job code 215 and the number of hours of 2.

[1229]   Q Job code, so --

[1230]   A But pay code -- pay code 10 is not how I -- I didn't group these by pay code. I grouped these --

[1231]   Q So pay code 10 means nothing to you?

[1232]   A Well, it doesn't mean nothing to me.

[1233]   Q Well, what does it mean?

[1234]   A But by itself it doesn't -- so you have to take -- to do this import you have to take pay code in conjunction -- in relationship to job in relationship to transaction date in relationship to pay type in relationship to hours or units in relationship to original input rate.

[1235]   Q So what does it mean for you that this employee was on pay code 10 and units or hours are 2 in that particular job on that particular day? What does that mean?

[1236]   A In my opinion -- without SQL I can't tell you what I did from SQL standpoint.

[1237]   Q All right.

[1238]   A But from what you just gave me here it would look like pay code 10 in conjunction with 2 hours of job type 215 in block 9 on the 17th would infer that that individual was paid for 2 hours pulling leaves on the 17th.

[1239]   Q Okay. Now, you also interpreted whether certain employees would work two hours or less, that was part of your -- at any given shift; right?

[1240]   A Right. That would not count as 2 hours less because on the 17th, if you look above, they also worked for -- they worked for 1-2-3-4-5-6 -- they worked for 6 hours. So to me that looks like 8 hours of work. There is no -- there is no 2-hour shift problem there according to my analysis.

[1241]   Q Do you know how Sunview used pay code 10 in paying its employees?

[1242]   A Well, since it's out of chronological dates here, my -- my suspicion is that this is time that was added several days after the fact that had not previously been put into the program. But I can't say that because I'm -- I would have to opine as to how procedurally things were done at Sunview.

[1243]   Q And you don't know?

[1244]   A And I don't know how procedurally things were done, but I assume -- or I assume this is just an artifact of something being out of order and there was a -- I just don't really -- I just don't really know on that particular circumstance what happened at the work site.

[1245]   MR. MOLLAND: Let's turn to Example 3 which will be Exhibit 7.

[1246]   (Deposition Exhibit 7 marked by the court reporter.)

[1247]   MR. MALLISON: The same objections. This is not authenticated. It misrepresents the underlying database.

[1248]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1249]   Q I'll represent that Example 3 represents rows 411238-411248 of the Sunview payroll database and covers the employee in here for one work week.

[1250]   MR. MALLISON: Same objection. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1251]   Q First of all, do you know whether your analysis looked at the Sunview payroll database for this and to calculate how minimum wage over a work week?

[1252]   A Well, I was specifically told to look at the minimum wage related to the number of hours worked on a work day. And so that's -- I understand what you're showing me here is something that you think I was tasked to do, but I want to make it really clear that if I was tasked to do this then I would tell you this is what I understand this to be.

[1253]   Q So you're telling me that you weren't asked to do this calculation?

[1254]   A I wasn't tasked to look at the number of hours over a work week based upon a ten-hour work day amortized over a seven-day work week or what have you. I just was not tasked with that.

[1255]   MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object this misstates the law as well. This is totally irrelevant to this case.

[1256]   THE WITNESS: I mean, this is not -- this isn't what I'm tasked to do. I could do this for you, for your clients, you know, I'm working, working for everyone here, but I wasn't tasked to.

[1257]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1258]   Q Okay. Do you understand -- do you have any understanding what pay code 31 is or how it was used at Sunview? Any understanding at all of what pay code 31 is?

[1259]   A I would have -- well, on the left-hand side of Example 3, Part 2, you show a list of -- oh, well, no, it's not even on here. You show a list of pay codes.

[1260]   Q On Exhibit 2; right?

[1261]   A No, I was talking about on Exhibit 6. I was hoping that this --

[1262]   Q Excuse me. Okay.

[1263]   A I'm sorry. I was hoping that this would match up with this.

[1264]   What this does tell me, so there is enough columns in here missing that I can't necessarily authenticate this, but 411238 to 411248, what this tells me --

[1265]   Q You're referring to example -- you're referring to Exhibit 7. What this tells you is what?

[1266]   A What this tells me is that -- well, what this tells me is that there is not a -- there is not a pay period on here -- or there's not a -- I'm sorry -- a pay type on here, and it also tells me there is no job type, and I also don't see dates on here. So I'm not really sure how to interpret this.

[1267]   MR. MALLISON: I object. This is a really incomplete hypothetical at this point.

[1268]   THE WITNESS: This is really bizarre, but this is good knowledge to have.

[1269]   MR. MALLISON: Give him the full exhibit with all the information.

[1270]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1271]   Q My question, though -- I thank you for your answer -- so you don't know how Sunview used or what pay code 31 was in the Sunview database; right?

[1272]   A Not in the context of the exhibit you gave to me because this is extremely limited showing of data.

[1273]   Q Right. Okay, let's forget about Exhibit 3 --or excuse me -- Example 3 which is Exhibit 7.

[1274]   Do you have any knowledge whatsoever from any source, your data, anybody's data, about what pay code 31 represented or how it was used at Sunview?

[1275]   A Well, you're representing it here as some sort of adjustment on Exhibit 7 which you just told me to forget.

[1276]   Q You can use any source of information you get including what I've just told you --

[1277]   A Okay.

[1278]   Q -- and what you've assumed right now. I want to know whether in doing your report you had any knowledge whatsoever of pay code 31 at Sunview or how you would use 31.

[1279]   A I would have to look at the SQL, but I think to understand what these pay codes mean you really have to use them in the context of pay type, job, date worked, units or hours and adjusted rate -- or not adjusted rate, but the -- but the input rate.

[1280]   Q All right. So -- A I don't think that -- you know, you're asking me something completely hypothetical. I don't --

[1281]   Q I'm not. You know pay code 31 exists in the Sunview database, don't you?

[1282]   A Well, I have a list of all of the pay codes that -- or all of the codes that exist in every single -- in every single context. But this is very --

[1283]   Q Where is your list? Let's see your list in the data.

[1284]   A Codes appearing in data. Here we go. No, let's see, that's a different. Let's look at this here. Hold on. What is this? Local cannot connect to a -- well, that's strange. Just a second.

[1285]   Do you see it? I don't. No, I don't think that's it. No, just a second here.

[1286]   This is --

[1287]   Q Can you find in what you produced the pay code that Sunview uses --

[1288]   A You know what's really interesting about this is that -- codes appearing -- let's see here, codes appearing in data.

[1289]   Q Can you --

[1290]   MR. MALLISON: He's looking. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1291]   Q Just focus for a minute. I'm asking you to find any document that you produced or you used in your expert report that identifies the pay codes used by Sunview in its payroll data. Okay, do you have the question in mind? Go ahead.

[1292]   A Okay.

[1293]   Q What's pay code -- those are the pay codes you used --

[1294]   A No. You used.

[1295]   Q Okay. Those are the pay codes you used for purposes of determining your conclusions and opinions based on the Sunview payroll data; right?

[1296]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. Misstates testimony.

[1297]   THE WITNESS: No, it's not. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1298]   Q You didn't use, okay.

[1299]   A So this is -- this is -- remember, we have to use -- void code -- so if there's a pay code and there is a void code that may not be a valid entry. If there is a misappropriation of hours job code with --or misidentified hours job code in conjunction with a pay code of 11, for instance, or 21 and a -- there's a lot of combinations that could mean one thing or another. What's interesting is this whole list was provide --

[1300]   Q I have a real simple question.

[1301]   A No, I've got to say this for the record.

[1302]   Q Did you --

[1303]   A I said --

[1304]   MR. MALLISON: Wait. Let him finish his answer.

[1305]   MR. MOLLAND: An answer to what? There is no question pending.

[1306]   MR. MALLISON: He said he has something to say.

[1307]   THE WITNESS: You've asked me a question --BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1308]   Q And you're not answering it.

[1309]   A Well, yes, I am.

[1310]   MR. MALLISON: You can't interrupt him. Let him finish.

[1311]   THE WITNESS: So here's the thing. I asked Tom and Steve what these codes were.

[1312]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1313]   Q Okay, good. Tom being Tom Lynch and Steve being Steve Hernandez, and they are plaintiffs' lawyers, and you asked them what the Sunview pay codes meant; right?

[1314]   A Should I have called you instead?

[1315]   Q You asked Tom Lynch and Mr. Hernandez what the Sunview pay codes meant; right?

[1316]   A You're still not letting me finish.

[1317]   Q Is that correct?

[1318]   A Mr. Molland, I would appreciate the opportunity to express --

[1319]   Q The record doesn't reflect who first names are. You talked to Tom --

[1320]   A Mr. Tom Lynch and Mr. Steve Hernandez, I sent them this exact list that you have on the screen. I said, "Please find out..."

[1321]   Q On pay codes?

[1322]   A This exact list that you have on the screen.

[1323]   Q The record is not going to show this.

[1324]   A On pay codes.

[1325]   MR. MALLISON: Oh, I have the file number.

[1326]   THE WITNESS: Yeah, it's Codes Appearing In Data.doc. I said, "Please find out what all of these mean from defense counsel so that I can conduct as thorough of an analysis as possible." There's some e-mails -- there are e-mails to that extent. This is what your company sent -- your client sent back.

[1327]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1328]   Q Okay. You're referring to Exhibit 2?

[1329]   A There are some very --

[1330]   Q You are referring to Exhibit 2; right?

[1331]   A You can raise your voice all you want, but this is--

[1332]   Q Well, the record has to be clear. You say,

[1333]   "This is what you sent back." You are referring to Exhibit 2; correct?

[1334]   A Yes.

[1335]   Q Thank you.

[1336]   A So Exhibit 2 is right here. Your company, your clients didn't include pay code 10, 11, 21, 31, 400, 412, 413. Interesting. Very interesting.

[1337]   So --

[1338]   Q I don't know what you're answering, but you're making a speech.

[1339]   A I'm answering --

[1340]   Q Are you done?

[1341]   A I am answering your question. You asked me if I know what these codes are.

[1342]   Q You are not remotely answering my question.

[1343]   A Well, I -- okay, so -- just so fact-finders can figure it out.

[1344]   Q You have a list of pay codes that are now being shown on the screen.

[1345]   A Right.

[1346]   Q And what file are they from again?

[1347]   A Codes Appearing In Data.doc.

[1348]   Q What's your understanding of how Sunview used pay code 31 which appears in the document you have on the screen?

[1349]   A Well, according to your Exhibit 7 it's called adjustment.

[1350]   Q Did you use it to adjust anything in your review of the data?

[1351]   A I would have used the job code.

[1352]   Q Did you use pay code 31 to adjust anything in your review of the data in forming your conclusions and opinions in this case?

[1353]   A If pay code 31 would have appeared in the data alongside the job codes that I used, the units or hours and the date, then those would have been applied toward my analysis as being applied against -- hear me out -- against the date that they appeared on. So if a shift had a 31 appearing on April 11th, it would have been applied against that. I was looking at hours worked in a day, not on a paycheck basis. So I hope that answers your question.

[1354]   Q That is actually very clear.

[1355]   A Okay.

[1356]   Q And I thank you very much for that.

[1357]   A You're welcome.

[1358]   Q I see what you did. If you made an adjustment, you made it on the work day --

[1359]   A Right.

[1360]   Q -- for which that accorded.

[1361]   A Right.

[1362]   Q Right. Perfect.

[1363]   Okay. Now, what about pay code 412, how did you think Sunview used that?

[1364]   A If it would have appeared on a particular day alongside units or hours and the pay type and the job code, it would have been applied on that day that it appeared in the data.

[1365]   Q Let's assume there was a pay code, any one of those pay codes, and in the field that accorded to it on that day it had units or hours. What would you have done with that pay code and the units or hours? Would you have assumed that the employee worked those hours?

[1366]   A Well, that's a hypothetical.

[1367]   Q Right.

[1368]   A But I would have used the date that appeared in your data that it occurred on or the -- I think you guys call it trans date -- trans date?

[1369]   Q Um-hm.

[1370]   A Okay. I would have applied what appeared there against the spreadsheet of hours that were -- how would I say? -- against the work date for which that date corresponded.

[1371]   So if there is, you know, like I see -- I see on Exhibit 7 how you would have said pay code 31 applies on a -- just hear me out here, I think I'm going to answer your question -- on a group of days against that paycheck that contained that group of days, if I'm hearing you correctly.

[1372]   My analysis and my understanding of the data was that the date code applied to what happened on that day, not against the final check that was cut that contained that day and every other day that appeared on that paycheck. So your pay codes are applied toward the shift on the particular day that that pay code is associated with.

[1373]   MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object generally on the fact it appears that these codes were withheld from plaintiffs improperly and that this entire process of hiring this expert has been -- you've been -- we've been highjacked by your attempt to both mislead the expert and mislead this court.

[1374]   MR. MOLLAND: Good luck with it. I mean, I think you probably are going to have --

[1375]   MR. MALLISON: If you are going to call to the defense the job codes, the stuff you failed to provide is a basis for your defense -- and by the way, it's a federal average and you're in trouble there anyway -- then I think the judge needs to get involved.

[1376]   MR. MOLLAND: Okay, you've made your objection.

[1377]   Q I think the record is clear you don't have the slightest idea what any of these pay codes mean, do you?

[1378]   A I have a very good idea what they mean in conjunction with the job codes and the dates they appeared on in relation to what your clients told plaintiffs' counsel via you.

[1379]   Q Well, just so we're clear, what does pay code 413 mean? Do you have any idea?

[1380]   A I'm not sure what pay code 413 means without the context of a job code and a void code and a date -- and what else? -- pay type.

[1381]   Q And you don't know what pay code 412 means either? And before -- I'm just going to say the same reservations; right?

[1382]   A It has to be -- yeah, it has to be used in conjunction with other indicators in the data. It's not -- in my findings it's not a standalone -- it's not a standalone code that can be used. There's --there's other things that have to be joined with that to make it work.

[1383]   Q And you don't have any idea what pay code 400 means, right, subject to the same reservations?

[1384]   A Well, I don't think it's -- well, without the context of the other codes it's not something that I can establish as meaning something that it doesn't, or conversely, something that it does. If it happened on that day and it had a pay type and it had a job type, then it would be applied toward that day's hourly or piece -- piece-rate work calculation.

[1385]   Q All right. I read your report. And the data that was provided to you didn't have any reference to lunch breaks, right, none of the data; right?

[1386]   A There is no evidence of time clock data in the data that was provided; that is correct.

[1387]   Q For lunch breaks?

[1388]   A For lunch periods or meal breaks.

[1389]   Q Right.

[1390]   A Did I just say the same thing, lunch breaks or meal breaks? Pardon me. Meal periods -- meal periods or rest breaks.

[1391]   Q Okay. Now, and that's good, I understand what you mean. I'm not trying to trick you.

[1392]   A That's fine.

[1393]   Q I am going to restate this. I honestly believe you will say yes to this, but maybe you won't.

[1394]   A All things considered.

[1395]   Q The Sunview data doesn't have -- that you looked at -- doesn't have any data at all about lunch breaks; correct?

[1396]   A The data that I --

[1397]   Q See, I knew you couldn't say no.

[1398]   A The data that I have does not have any codes in it pertaining to a lunch or a meal break.

[1399]   Q The data that you have doesn't have any reference codes mentioned, data, you name it, that pertained in any way to lunch breaks; right?

[1400]   A That is correct, there is no evidence of lunch breaks in this data.

[1401]   Q And the same true -- the same is true, there is no evidence of rest breaks in the data you looked at; right?

[1402]   A That is -- that is correct.

[1403]   Q And there is no reference in the data that you looked at and were provided that have any reference to when, when, the time that any employee at Sunview started work; correct?

[1404]   A Well, I don't -- did I -- did I state that in my testimony?

[1405]   Q No, you didn't, but I -- A No. So you are just anecdotally asking me if I saw evidence of that beyond my report? I'll just tell you, yeah --

[1406]   Q Yes, it's a question.

[1407]   A -- I didn't see -- I didn't see start or -- I didn't see start or end times in the data. I just saw a gross sum of hours.

[1408]   Q Right. So just to make sure the record is clear because this record is going to get pretty confusing, all right?

[1409]   A Sure.

[1410]   Q The data that you looked at, the electronic data that you were provided and analyzed didn't have any evidence of start time for any employee; correct?

[1411]   A That is correct.

[1412]   Q And it didn't have any evidence of end times for any employees; correct?

[1413]   A That is correct.

[1414]   Q And it didn't have any evidence about whether any employee had ever paid for or been reimbursed for a tool that they used at work at Sunview; right? No evidence of that one way or the other; right?

[1415]   A Let me just make sure -- standby. You know, I --

[1416]   MR. MALLISON: I object. It goes beyond the scope of his expert testimony in this case.

[1417]   THE WITNESS: I mean, if you're just asking -- I -- I don't know if there were tool reimbursements.

[1418]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1419]   Q That's because the data doesn't show, have any evidence of that one way or the other; right?

[1420]   A Well, last standing --

[1421]   Q To your knowledge.

[1422]   A My lack of having been tasked with analyzing specific data that contained a equipment code -- there are equipment codes in here. Those were not -- those were specifically excluded from my analysis, but there are equipment codes. I don't know what they mean. I don't know what a, you know, a front loader from a back loader or anything like that. I don't know what those codes mean. I believe there are equipment codes. I don't know what they mean. I don't know if there were ever any reimbursements.

[1423]   Q Okay, let me --

[1424]   A Work in conscription, yeah.

[1425]   Q A couple of things that I can just tell you you are way off in your report about, and at least I'll represent you are way off. We think you're way off.

[1426]   A Okay. I understand.

[1427]   Q But I just -- I've got to figure out how you did it. And that is the one thing, the shifts less than two hours per day you come up with a total. Can you tell me how you did that to come up with this total? Okay?

[1428]   A Sure.

[1429]   Q Or maybe you can just give me the specific query that you used that came up with that total.

[1430]   A Well, the queries are within the SQL. There's a text file that has the SQL. But I think I could actually -- if I may refer back to one of these, I'd be happy to explain it to you.

[1431]   Q The inaccurate misrepresenting exhibits that we gave you that didn't seem to be in accordance with the data?

[1432]   A It's the one I didn't want to look at, now I want to look at?

[1433]   Q Over the objection of your counsel.

[1434]   A He's not here. He's not my counsel. I'm not -- he's not representing me, by the way. I am not represented here today by anybody. I'm just -- he's representing his own interests. I just want to say that for the record. He's occasionally my counselor, but not my counsel.

[1435]   Q Okay. And, yeah, feel free to use any exhibit that you have or the electronic data that you have to explain how you came up with the numbers for --

[1436]   A No, I appreciate it.

[1437]   Q -- the work less than two hours per work day.

[1438]   A I appreciate the opportunity.

[1439]   So back in your first example, okay, yeah, let's use this Exhibit 6 which is out of order chronologically, but it makes a very interesting point. Okay.

[1440]   Now, Exhibit 6, row 5727, pay code 10, job 215. This employee appears to work 2 hours on the 17th, but that in fact is not the case. If you look at line 5718, you saw that -- you can see that that particular employee also worked for 6 hours on the 17th.

[1441]   The way that I did my analysis was I would have created a row where I summed the two of those together to create 8 hours. All right. 6 plus two is 8. And that would have been 1 shift, 2 segments, combined 8 hours.

[1442]   So to come up with 2 hours, well, less than 2 hours, I would have summed up all the hourly time worked by an employee on a particular day, and I would have looked for all of the instances where the sum of those hours worked the segments was less than 2 hours.

[1443]   So --

[1444]   Q Okay, I think I get that. I'm getting that.

[1445]   A Yeah.

[1446]   Q So in this example on Exhibit 6 where you have 2 hours under pay code 10 for this employee on the 17th, would that -- would that then enter into your data as a shift less than 2 hours in a day?

[1447]   A No.

[1448]   Q Okay. When would you ever find an employee who worked a shift less than 2 hours a day? What sort of data would you need to find in the payroll database for you to come to a determination that there was a day or a shift where an employee worked less than 2 hours?

[1449]   A Well, it could have been time keeping database or time clock database, this CSV file. I would have done a select sum of the instances -- or count. We call it count, select count.

[1450]   Q Select account. Okay.

[1451]   A Not account. I'm sorry. Select space count, c-o-u-n-t --

[1452]   Q Select space count.

[1453]   A -- of the shifts where the actual time worked as a sum of the total time worked for that employee on that day is less than 120 minutes.

[1454]   Q Okay. And you would have used -- for that purpose you wouldn't have excluded any pay codes?

[1455]   A I would have not excluded any pay codes.

[1456]   Q Okay. That's closed.

[1457]   And I bet you remember because you're a smart guy --

[1458]   A Well --

[1459]   Q -- that there was a pay code that was an adjustment pay code. Remember that?

[1460]   A Yes, pay code --

[1461]   Q 31.

[1462]   A -- 31.

[1463]   Q Right. So you would have used that pay code too and any hours that would have been reflected in that pay code would also have reflected a -- work less than 2 hours if it was less than 2 hours?

[1464]   A Well, I don't know, is pay code 31 -- does it have a -- well, let me just look at a snapshot of your data here because I want -- that really -- that's a really interesting question. And once again, I love interesting questions. So just let's look at the CSV file here.

[1465]   That's a fast little laptop.

[1466]   Okay. So I'm just -- you're just going to have to trust me on this here. I'm looking at data ad hoc.

[1467]   Q Okay.

[1468]   A So I don't --

[1469]   Q Do the best you can with the question.

[1470]   A I will do the best I can. I will. And expertly so.

[1471]   Okay. So what I see here is this pay code 31 shows 6-and-a-half units, hours, would have been added to the work on 12-12-2001. Now, what's interesting --let's see, what is 257? Code 257 -- I'm looking -- oh, here it is, 257. Let me make sure 257 was not excluded from my -- yeah, it's not excluded.

[1472]   So they would have gotten 6.5 times 7.3, or in this case 6.5 hours added to their work day on 12-12-2001.

[1473]   Q Let's identify where you're looking here. You're on which document?

[1474]   A I'm on it looks to be the 308th row of PR55DTLR.csv.

[1475]   Is that the right column? That is, right? Let's see here. Um-hm, the fourth column. 1-2-3-4. Yes. It is. Okay.

[1476]   Q Okay. That's I think very clear.

[1477]   A Okay.

[1478]   Q Before we break can I ask you one other subject, and then we'll take a break?

[1479]   A Sure.

[1480]   Q I'm going to ask about your overtime opinion. And we've touched on it basically. So paragraph 24.

[1481]   A Okay.

[1482]   Q You know, I think I get how you came up with 8,246 based upon what you've testified about. You looked at all the shifts, you made a query about in which of those shifts were over 10 hours, you didn't exclude any pay codes, and you took the total and came up with 8,246, or --

[1483]   A No, I mean, I like your summary. I'm just thinking about it. Well, we would have taken out pay codes --

[1484]   Q There are some pay codes you excluded, but you put them up front.

[1485]   A -- 630, 631, 682 and 899.

[1486]   Q I don't think they are pay codes, but that's okay. Whatever they are you took them out. They are job codes.

[1487]   A Job codes.

[1488]   Q You call them pay codes, but they're job codes. It's all right.

[1489]   A Well, it's probably better if I would have --

[1490]   Q That's okay. There's a lot of stuff that's wrong, but, you know --

[1491]   MR. MALLISON: Objection.

[1492]   THE WITNESS: No, I don't -- I don't agree with that. I don't agree that there's lots of stuff wrong. I mean, you know --BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1493]   Q Well, it's just -- I shouldn't -- there was some stuff that you thought a job was a pay code --

[1494]   A We don't have a meeting of the minds. And you will have your own experts, I'm sure, and your own replies that will --

[1495]   Q The truth of the matter, you didn't exclude any pay codes, but you excluded some job codes. And looking at your report now you know that's what you did; right?

[1496]   A There would have been -- well, there would have been a type 31 pay codes included --

[1497]   Q Sure.

[1498]   A -- in that. I think that's accurate to say. Yes.

[1499]   Q All I'm trying to get at is in paragraph 13 where you say you excluded the following pay codes, you now know that's wrong. You didn't exclude any pay codes. What you did is excluded some job codes.

[1500]   A Well, I mislabeled this based upon a conversation with Tom Lynch. There is obviously the SQL will set the -- the SQL statements would set the record straight. You'd see exactly what that means from a SQL standpoint. And this is just a, a mis- --a mistype based upon information --

[1501]   Q No problem.

[1502]   A -- provided by Tom Lynch.

[1503]   Q So no problem.

[1504]   But let's go to paragraph 24, the overtime, because I'm trying -- I'm just trying to figure out how you got those numbers. So first you came up with the number of shifts that are over 10 hours; right?

[1505]   A Right.

[1506]   Q And the way -- that seems pretty straightforward. You look at the shifts you counted to figure out which ones are 10 hours. You don't exclude any pay codes, and there you go, right, you get 8,000-something?

[1507]   A Well, right. But even more, I think, central is that if I had the information on these pay codes, if I had most everything we asked for I could certainly go back and with an errata I could correct that.

[1508]   Q Well, I'm not saying there is anything to correct here. I'm not suggesting that there is --

[1509]   A Okay.

[1510]   Q -- on the number of the shifts over 10 hours. There might be; there might not be. I just don't know. But it seems to me a pretty straightforward way of getting that, you just look at the shifts that are over 10 hours, you don't exclude anything, and you come up with 8,246.

[1511]   A We don't exclude type 31.

[1512]   Q I got you.

[1513]   So, but then what I really don't understand is where you say that there were of these 8,246 there was no overtime paid for 4500. A couple of questions about that. First, your chances are about one in 4500, I guess, of coming up with that number --

[1514]   A Yeah.

[1515]   Q -- out of -- it's an even number.

[1516]   A I don't --

[1517]   Q Is that an exact number or is that an approximate number?

[1518]   A No, that's an exact number from SQL. I'm very careful. I wouldn't want to put anyone in a bad spot.

[1519]   Q Okay. Well, tell me how -- tell me how you got that number that's saying that there was no overtime pay, how you made that decision for those 8,246 shifts.

[1520]   A I looked at the base pay for employees who worked -- regardless of how long they worked --irregardless of how long they worked. The -- I then looked at the number of employees who worked for more than 10 hours, granted with pay code 31 in there, which you allege is an adjustment and is not actual work. And then you look at the number of those employees who are not paid in excess of their hourly rate at 1-and-a-half times. Of those 8246 number, 4500 of them experienced -- the shifts -- experienced no overtime. Now --

[1521]   Q Does that mean they weren't paid above their nominal rate that's designated as the input rate?

[1522]   A I -- well, I wouldn't -- I don't understand the term nominal rate, but I will say --

[1523]   Q I think it is input rate is what you --

[1524]   A Yeah. So the general -- if you work for 6 hours in a day and you are paid 6.75 an hour, you're not able to see if someone is paid at a higher rate or a lower rate based upon the rate that's inputted, input on this sheet. And so it was easy for me to see where overtime was -- you know, where the hours were overtime after 10 hours in a day.

[1525]   Q Here's the critical point. You did this on a daily basis. You didn't do it on a pay period basis; right?

[1526]   A I was told to look on a daily basis.

[1527]   Q And I think that --

[1528]   A Yeah, and that's -- that is -- you know, I think that is a, a distinction obviously that, you know, I'm not -- I'm not an attorney. I have no idea why it would be done one way or another.

[1529]   Q You certainly were capable of looking at it on a periodic rate if you'd been instructed to do that.

[1530]   A If I had been.

[1531]   Q Yeah, and you just didn't do it because you were told not to.

[1532]   A I wasn't told not to. I was just told they want to see it on a -- everything on a daily --

[1533]   Q Got you.

[1534]   A -- basis.

[1535]   Now, knowing pay code 31 and knowing what you just showed me in Exhibit 7, yeah, I would love to have the opportunity to go back and do this. I don't think your clients or my client here want to pay for that. But I could certainly do it. And I wish that I had that particular -- had been given that task.

[1536]   Q Now, you know that the data that Sunview gave you was susceptible to analysis on a pay period basis as opposed to just a daily basis; right?

[1537]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. It calls for a legal conclusion.

[1538]   THE WITNESS: Yeah, I'm not aware of any one way or another that you would have or plaintiffs' counsel would have preferred to look at that.

[1539]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1540]   Q Okay. You're aware that Sunview produced the actual payment -- pay records -- weekly pay records of its employees to plaintiffs' counsel? Did they tell you that?

[1541]   A Well, I see them in here as -- as PDFs. So I am aware that there's weekly, what would you call it, pay stubs?

[1542]   Q Pay statements? Payroll records?

[1543]   A Pay records.

[1544]   Q Right.

[1545]   A Yeah.

[1546]   Q And fair enough.

[1547]   A So.

[1548]   Q I mean, you didn't look at that because you understood that wasn't your assignment.

[1549]   A I understood my assignment to be limited in scope to what I had been tasked to do, and that was -- that was all that I had been asked to do.

[1550]   Q Right.

[1551]   A Yeah. But I would have gladly analyzed it both ways had I been asked to do that.

[1552]   Q Got you.

[1553]   A And I'm capable as an expert to analyze both ways, and in fact in many cases I have. And there was actually a case, I attach it to here, it's the KFC case where we had looked at it where I had been tasked to analyze it both ways. And I'm not sure how that decision was made on certification and whether it was based upon a weekly or a biweekly paycheck and overtime or was it, you know, just straight hourly work. I'm not really sure, but --

[1554]   Q Do you have any idea why plaintiffs' counsel here didn't ask you to look at the data on a payroll periodic basis on the actual period in which employees were paid?

[1555]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. It calls for speculation. Nonsensical.

[1556]   THE WITNESS: Yeah, I'm not really sure what they had in mind when they asked.

[1557]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1558]   Q When you went through the data did you see something that was called a system date on the data?

[1559]   A There is a date to the right of trans D.

[1560]   And, you know, let me just -- I can just tell you what fields there were. That's best. Let me just look and see what this is. Yeah, there is a system date and a system time there, sure.

[1561]   Q Did you have any understanding whether by looking at the data and sorting it by system dates you could figure out what the payroll periods were pretty easily?

[1562]   A Well, you know, I've done 49 cases now, and I've seen data in every possible manner and form. I had -- I had just a basic understanding that there's a transaction date cc and a transaction date year to year, month to month, day to day, and that was what I was instructed to use.

[1563]   Q Fair enough. You can only do what you're instructed to do.

[1564]   Let's take a little break. Thank you.

[1565]   A Okay.

[1566]   THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the end of media No. 2 in the deposition of Aaron Woolfson. We're off the record at 2:34 p.m. -- I'm sorry -- 3:34 p.m.

[1567]   (Recess taken.)

[1568]   THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at 4:09 p.m. This is the beginning of media No. 3 in the deposition of Aaron Woolf- I'm sorry -- Woolfson. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1569]   Q Mr. Woolfson, could we go back to the exhibit you were showing me to explain your minimum wage analysis per day that pertained to Mr. Sanchez? Do you recall that exhibit? I think I was asking for examples of how you calculated your minimum wage.

[1570]   A Yes.

[1571]   Q And you brought -- you looked at a file and brought it up on the screen.

[1572]   A Sure. You must be talking about this particular?

[1573]   Q Exactly. That's exactly it. No, that's a different one. This is the one for minimum wage. This is the one that --

[1574]   MR. STEPHENS: Payroll registers. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1575]   Q Payroll registers. And I was asking about stubs, and I was asking what you reviewed to corroborate your opinion.

[1576]   A Is it this one here? Probably.

[1577]   Q No, I don't think so.

[1578]   A Yeah, it is.

[1579]   Q Is that it? No, I think it was for Mr. Sanchez. Maybe if you scroll up you'll find it.

[1580]   A Scroll up.

[1581]   Q Do you see it there? It doesn't look --

[1582]   A Let me see if I can find it.

[1583]   Q Here we go. At least that's Sanchez. Is it?

[1584]   MR. STEPHENS: 72623.

[1585]   MR. MOLLAND: 7- -- what was the number again?

[1586]   MR. STEPHENS: Check No. 72623.

[1587]   THE WITNESS: Okay.

[1588]   MR. MOLLAND: There you go. That's exactly it.

[1589]   (Interruption.)

[1590]   THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. Ignore that. Let me turn off my phone. Sorry, guys.

[1591]   My phone is silent. Okay. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1592]   Q As I understand, now we're going to be talking about check 72623.

[1593]   A Okay. Yes.

[1594]   Q It's for Jose Sanchez. And what's the total paid for this whatever pay period you're looking at?

[1595]   A Well, the total paid for the 8 hours worked on this pay period is 56.80.

[1596]   Q 56.80.

[1597]   A Right.

[1598]   Q And how many -- and you're using this example as an example of why you believe, based on everything you've told me and instructions from counsel and all that, that Mr. Sanchez wasn't paid minimum wage; is that right?

[1599]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. It misstates the testimony.

[1600]   THE WITNESS: No. What I'm just saying is that the amount of hours here for the pay rate -- if you're looking at just straight pay. I'm not talking about piece rate amortized over the number of hours that they worked. I'm talking about just straight pay.

[1601]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1602]   Q You're just saying whether there is a 6.5 up there rather than a 6.75; is that what you're saying?

[1603]   A That's all I'm saying.

[1604]   Q Okay. Well, so then you basically acknowledge that if you take what Mr. Sanchez was paid in gross pay for that day and you divide it into the number of hours that Mr. Sanchez worked that day that that's more than the minimum wage; right?

[1605]   A Well, I -- I agree with that. But I'm not --and I acknowledge that in my declaration as well where I talked about minimum wage -- let's see. Just a second. I'll find it for you. Thanks for your patience. Just a moment. Okay. Yeah. Pardon me.

[1606]   In paragraph 20 and 21 I speak to that. I state the percentage of overall shifts that as straight pay fall below minimum wage.

[1607]   Q Oh, okay.

[1608]   A But --

[1609]   Q I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I get this.

[1610]   A Yeah.

[1611]   Q You know, your report is actually -- now I understand it.

[1612]   A Yeah, I'm not saying that people -- I did it both ways. I did it both ways because I was instructed to look at straight pay and also as the piece rate amortized over the number of hours worked.

[1613]   Q So the people who told you to do this report for them said they want you -- they wanted you to calculate how many payroll register entries there were where there was a pay rate that was below a certain minimum wage for a particular period of time.

[1614]   A Well, that's --

[1615]   Q That's what they told you to do?

[1616]   A Well, not pay rate, but number of shifts worked where the number of -- the number of shifts worked, not pay rate --

[1617]   Q Right.

[1618]   A -- as it appears on a paycheck, but the number of shifts --

[1619]   Q Worked?

[1620]   A -- where the pay rate was below what I was provided as minimum wage. So --

[1621]   Q Okay. Who provided you with the minimum wage numbers to use?

[1622]   A Mr. Mallison. But actually those --

[1623]   Q Where are those documents?

[1624]   A Sorry. Well, it was a reference to --

[1625]   (Interruption.) BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1626]   Q Go ahead.

[1627]   A Sure. Do you want me to go ahead or do you want to take a --

[1628]   Q No, go ahead.

[1629]   A Okay. Those came from the -- there's a website that we -- that I went to, California State Minimum Wage -- I don't remember the exact name of the website.

[1630]   Q Sure. In Mr. Mallison's office was there a website --

[1631]   A Mr. Mallison --

[1632]   Q We can't --

[1633]   A Yeah.

[1634]   Q -- both talk at the same time. It's going to drive her crazy.

[1635]   A I'm sorry.

[1636]   Q Very soon she's going to knock one of us in the jaw. So don't talk over me. I'll try not to talk over you. I know it's difficult. It's hard for me too.

[1637]   But essentially Mr. Mallison told you what --or his office told you what website to go to for purposes of getting whatever the minimum wage numbers or pay rates that you were going to be using in your report for a given period of time?

[1638]   A Mr. Mallison's office showed me the information on the website and told me to use those particular numbers. It was California Department of Labor -- something. I don't remember the exact website.

[1639]   Q Okay. And is that website either the website or the pages you looked at in the data you supplied us, the memory stick?

[1640]   A It's certainly noted in the SQL on the memory stick, yes.

[1641]   Q Okay.

[1642]   Now, I think what I initially asked you to do, and maybe it wasn't very clear, I asked you to come up with any data, any payroll data that you had that supported your opinion that any worker was paid less than minimum wage at Sunview. So in the example that we have here, check 72623, I guess you would agree with me that Jose Sanchez on that particular entry, check 72623, was in fact when you add up what he was paid and divide it by the hours he worked he was paid more than the pay rate that you believe was minimum wage; right?

[1643]   A Well, the paycheck -- and I think that you stated that the paycheck was a 7-day work period.

[1644]   Q I'm just asking you for the document that you have in front of you that we're just looking at now and your data for that period, and I don't know what period that was, probably just a day, but anyway, you say 56.80 that date; right?

[1645]   A Well, this paycheck period covers several days; right?

[1646]   Q Can I ask you whether 56.80 was what Mr. Sanchez was paid in that pay period on your data that you're showing me?

[1647]   A Well, this is Sunview data. This isn't my data. This is Sunview data.

[1648]   Q The data you picked out to show us to illustrate your opinion on minimum wage; right? This is data you picked out. I didn't pick this out.

[1649]   Mr. Sanchez's payment, the data you picked out.

[1650]   A Did I make up this data or is this your data?

[1651]   Q Did you pick -- you selected this data.

[1652]   A It was a random selection ad hoc selected right here for this particular demonstration.

[1653]   Q Okay. Look at it. It says Mr. Sanchez was paid 56.80; right?

[1654]   A Well, it does say he was paid 56.80.

[1655]   Q And he worked 8 hours, right --

[1656]   A I don't know.

[1657]   Q -- in this pay period?

[1658]   A Did he work in -- is this 2 days of work at 4 hours apiece or 7 hours?

[1659]   Q I don't know. You tell me. It's your data.

[1660]   A It's not my data. It's your data.

[1661]   Q I'm reading the data that's up there that you selected. It says he worked 8 hours a day. Is that 8 hours or not in your data?

[1662]   MR. MALLISON: It misstates the testimony.

[1663]   THE WITNESS: It misstates the evidence, yeah, on this data.

[1664]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1665]   Q So you tell me -- look, I'm not misstating anything. I'm just trying to get some clear testimony here. You picked up some data for Jose Sanchez, check No. 72623, do you see that up on the board on the screen? Do you see that data?

[1666]   A Sure, I see the data.

[1667]   Q This is data that's in your file that you gave me; right?

[1668]   A This is data in your file that I gave back to you, yes.

[1669]   Q Okay. You randomly selected this to illustrate your opinion about minimum wage today at the deposition; right?

[1670]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. That was an entirely different point.

[1671]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1672]   Q Did you?

[1673]   A We're just looking at some data that's on the screen. I don't remember if I picked it or if someone just said a check number here. I don't -- I don't know.

[1674]   Q Well, if you can't remember, you have a very short memory because you picked it out. Okay?

[1675]   A Well, okay, so let's assume that I picked it out. What's the question?

[1676]   Q The question is how many hours did Jose Sanchez work in this particular pay period that's on the screen?

[1677]   A In this particular pay period he worked for 8 hours.

[1678]   Q How much was he paid?

[1679]   A 56 -- 56.80.

[1680]   Q And when you divide 8 into 56.80 what do you get?

[1681]   A Point-something. It should be -- do you mean 56.80 into 8?

[1682]   Q You divide 8 hours, you divide that into 56.80, what's the number that you get?

[1683]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. I think you're missing the math here.

[1684]   THE WITNESS: .140845. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1685]   Q I don't know --

[1686]   A Switch the denominator.

[1687]   Q If you're intentionally mis- -- I don't know what you're doing here, but he made $56.80; right?

[1688]   A You just directed me to divide 8 into 56.80.

[1689]   Q I'll withdraw the question if it confused you, sir.

[1690]   A No, I want to understand what you're asking me.

[1691]   Q I withdraw the question.

[1692]   How much did he make per hour in that pay period?

[1693]   A 56.80 divided by 8 is $7.10 per hour.

[1694]   Q Is that more or less than the minimum wage you believe existed during that period of time?

[1695]   A But that is --

[1696]   Q Is it more or less than the minimum wage you believe existed during that period of time?

[1697]   A You are asking me --

[1698]   Q Is $7.10 more or less than the minimum wage you believe existed at that time?

[1699]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. Vague as to time. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1700]   Q Will you answer my question, please?

[1701]   A No, not as you're asking it.

[1702]   Q Okay, good.

[1703]   Mark that. Mark that. Mark the transcript, please.

[1704]   (Request to mark the record.)

[1705]   THE WITNESS: The reason --BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1706]   Q I'm going to ask another question.

[1707]   MR. MALLISON: No, he needs to finish his answer.

[1708]   MR. MOLLAND: I'm withdrawing. I'm withdrawing the question.

[1709]   THE WITNESS: I need to understand why you're force -- I can't categorically say that these 8 hours took place in 1 day or over 4 days of 2 hours each day. I don't know without looking at your underlying data. This doesn't provide a picture. If -- I'm going to answer your question. If that 8 hours were worked on one day, that individual did not receive less than minimum wage.

[1710]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1711]   Q Okay.

[1712]   Do you have any examples of individuals in the data that you looked at that in any way represent your opinion that anybody at Sunview wasn't paid minimum wage, since Mr. Sanchez was in that particular sample that you picked out. Any?

[1713]   A I would need to use SQL and a SQL database to show you that, but I could show you if I had SQL available to me.

[1714]   Q Now we're on to overtime.

[1715]   MR. MALLISON: Do you have SQL available? I mean, he said he can show you, and you're refusing to take the examples.

[1716]   MR. MOLLAND: I'm not refusing to do anything. I asked whether he had an example. He says he can't do it without some manipulation on the software that we don't have with us. We'll move on.

[1717]   MR. MALLISON: He provided you everything he needed to do except the software, and you refused to do it.

[1718]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1719]   Q I don't know, do you have everything you need to answer my question?

[1720]   A I gave you everything on this stick. If I had access to SQL and we had a SQL viewer, I could certainly show you examples of that.

[1721]   Q Okay. Did you bring SQL with you? Did you bring a SQL Viewer with you?

[1722]   A SQL Viewer is a Microsoft licensed product. I don't have a SQL Viewer with me, I mean, just like you don't have an AS-400 with you.

[1723]   MR. MOLLAND: Anything else you'd like to do, Mr. Mallison?

[1724]   MR. MALLISON: I'd like to get that smirk off your face.

[1725]   MR. MOLLAND: Well, I'm -- MR. MALLISON: You really -- you really -- he told you he could do it, and you're just purposefully avoiding all the examples.

[1726]   MR. MOLLAND: How can he do it if he doesn't have the tool with him?

[1727]   MR. MALLISON: Everybody has SQL. Your office has SQL.

[1728]   MR. MOLLAND: I don't carry it in my desktop and so -- that's fine.

[1729]   MR. MALLISON: If you walk down the hall, there is a copy of SQL down here. It's just like there's a copy of Microsoft Word.

[1730]   MR. MOLLAND: You should have brought one with you, then.

[1731]   MR. MALLISON: It is not our responsibility to supply him with the tools you need to provide answers to your questions.

[1732]   MR. MOLLAND: Perfectly -- and your position is well stated.

[1733]   Q Okay. Let's go to your overtime opinion. I would like you to go to your data and see if you can pick out anybody that falls into this 4500 that you believe weren't paid overtime.

[1734]   MR. MALLISON: The same objection. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1735]   Q Can you do that?

[1736]   A Are you asking me about straight overtime or are you asking me about overtime plus piece rate amortized over the hours that they worked equaling more -- equaling to or more than overtime -- minimum wage?

[1737]   Q Right now I would be satisfied with anybody that you can -- any employee that you can point out in the data that you provided or brought with you to the deposition that illustrates your opinion there was any human being in the world that Sunview didn't pay overtime to that he was entitled to.

[1738]   A If I had SQL available to me, I could show you.

[1739]   Q Without -- since I don't have that program with me and you don't have it with you, is there any way in the data that you brought with you that you can point to the identity or any record that would illustrate there was anybody that Sunview hasn't paid overtime that they should have paid overtime to?

[1740]   A I wouldn't be able to do it without SQL to illustrate. Let's see here, if there is an example of it in here. I would not be able to do it without a SQL database to query it directly, but I can assure you there are examples of it.

[1741]   Q How did Sunview pay overtime, do you know?

[1742]   A How did Sunview pay overtime?

[1743]   Q Right.

[1744]   A I assume that if somebody worked for more than 10 hours they got time and a half. And there were circumstances, I believe, in the database where they did in fact do that.

[1745]   Q Now, did you identify all the instances in the database that showed that Sunview was paying people time and a half, to your understanding?

[1746]   A I identified where they were and where they weren't, to my -- to the best of my ability to recall my SQL.

[1747]   Q How could you tell -- was there any field that you used to determine whether Sunview paid people overtime or didn't pay people overtime?

[1748]   A There's a field called original input rate, and that would be 1.5 times the rate that it was in previous shifts where there was not less than 10 hours. I guess, let's see, 10 hours or less.

[1749]   Q So can you describe the process by which you then used that data and any other data that Sunview provided or Mr. Stone provided -- is his name Stone? -- Mr. Stone --

[1750]   A Bradley. Brad Stone.

[1751]   Q -- provided to you --

[1752]   A Yes.

[1753]   Q -- that you used to calculate your overtime numbers that are reported on paragraph 24 of your report?

[1754]   A Well, I don't -- there is not a specific overtime code that your client uses that I'm aware of.

[1755]   MR. MOLLAND: Excuse me just a second.

[1756]   (Discussion off the record.)

[1757]   THE WITNESS: Sure. Is this a good time to go off the record for just a second while I can hit the restroom?

[1758]   MR. MOLLAND: Of course.

[1759]   THE WITNESS: I just drank all this water.

[1760]   Thank you.

[1761]   THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. The time is 4:31 p.m.

[1762]   (Recess taken.)

[1763]   THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at 4:34 p.m.

[1764]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1765]   Q Okay.

[1766]   A Okay. So to restate my answer about overtime. You're asking me about BVS and the data that I used. There is a -- there is a code, it is called overtime code. But just to be certain, if there was time listed that was time-and-a-half times the normal rate that an individual is paid for the normal hourly rate, even if it wasn't necessarily marked overtime, although it normally was, as an O appeared in the overtime code field, I used that to designate overtime. And I was careful to make sure that that was used in my analysis.

[1767]   Q So it would be consistent with that, then, that there were 4,500 times exactly where when you looked at the data the individual was paid time and a half to your understanding?

[1768]   A Well, I want to -- you know, this goes back to your question about our discussion, our friendly discussion about pay codes. The pay code 31, which you call adjustment on here, may have been added to those hours and counted as improperly not paid overtime when in fact that pay code should have been not applied to any particular day's work, but the aggregation of all those hours at the end per paycheck production.

[1769]   Q Would that have increased the number of shifts that you believe that where Sunview didn't pay overtime or would that have decreased the number of shifts?

[1770]   A It would have decreased the number of shifts that I believe I demonstrated Sunview having not paid overtime. Because of the way that this code manifests in the data, I was looking, I was applying that code toward the day's work where it appears in trans date rather than the date that the check was issued.

[1771]   This is -- during the break I had a chance to speak with Marco Palau and Tom Lynch, and they read me the PMK deposition of your -- I don't know what the title was of the individual who was deposed.

[1772]   Q Don Gallegos perhaps?

[1773]   A Well, I'll take your word for it. And his description of pay codes was that No. 10 was a manual makeup code as I had identified in one of your exhibits where the individual -- on Exhibit 6; Example 2, Exhibit 6 -- where the individual had worked and had been manually given hours. Do you remember that, we had referenced that?

[1774]   Q Um-hm.

[1775]   A According to the PMK gentleman who was deposed said that 31 was a computer-generated makeup. But, in fact, as I just learned today, it is an adjustment to be applied at the end of the payroll.

[1776]   So I would like to have the opportunity to recast that and provide an errata. And I'm sorry.

[1777]   Q Are you done?

[1778]   A Well, yeah. I mean, I apologize for having been given wrong information from the PMK on that particular adjustment code. And so I would like the chance to recast that because I think it will reduce that particular overtime issue.

[1779]   MR. MALLISON: In other words, here is my objection on this entire line of testimony. You guys screwed up. You gave the wrong PMK testimony, and that's why if his numbers are wrong his numbers are wrong and incurred an incredible amount of cost to plaintiffs' counsel and defense counsel for that matter --

[1780]   MR. MOLLAND: Yeah.

[1781]   MR. MALLISON: -- in this case, and the court for that matter in dealing with this issue. And it will be raised with the court. That's the end of my objection.

[1782]   THE WITNESS: But regardless, and this is me --

[1783]   MR. MALLISON: If you're correct on this whole point about the adjustment, which we still haven't gotten resolved except for the fact that you allege it now at this particular juncture in his deposition for the very first time --

[1784]   MR. MOLLAND: I'm not alleging anything.

[1785]   MR. MALLISON: You absolutely are.

[1786]   MR. MOLLAND: I am not.

[1787]   MR. MALLISON: You're inserting it in this deposition transcript. It's the first time it's come up, and it's contrary to your PMK deposition.

[1788]   THE WITNESS: Okay. Well, regardless, I'm sorry that whatever happened manifested in the numbers showing that overtime had been -- this may require an adjustment on my part.

[1789]   MR. MALLISON: And I want to continue my objection that you're smirking about the fact that I just spent thousands of dollars getting an analysis done --

[1790]   MR. MOLLAND: I'm not smirking.

[1791]   MR. MALLISON: -- based upon your error, based upon your client's representation.

[1792]   MR. MOLLAND: If I'm smiling, it is only because of the direction in which your finger keeps being pointed. And I feel --

[1793]   MR. MALLISON: You're the one who did it.

[1794]   MR. MOLLAND: I'm not --

[1795]   MR. MALLISON: You're the one who started this litigation.

[1796]   MR. MOLLAND: I've never had somebody point their finger as much as you have in this deposition, and it is a little entertaining I have to say --

[1797]   MR. MALLISON: I'm glad I'm entertaining you.

[1798]   MR. MOLLAND: Well, you -- yeah, anyway, Mallison finger will be noted.

[1799]   MR. MALLISON: Thank you.

[1800]   THE WITNESS: It's a nice finger. No --

[1801]   I just want to say, you know, because I want to do a good job for everyone, and, you know, I just -- it's unfortunate that occasionally I'm operating on information that is, you know, I wouldn't have known that adjustment should be only applied at the -- not on the day worked, but on the check that that work day appears on. So I will recast that and provide an errata as soon as possible.

[1802]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1803]   Q All right. You referred to a PMK deposition --

[1804]   A Yes.

[1805]   Q -- just now.

[1806]   And before you did your report you didn't read any transcript you said; right?

[1807]   A I hadn't. I had counted on summaries of codes and this document here.

[1808]   Q You're referring to Exhibit 2?

[1809]   A Yes, Exhibit 2.

[1810]   Q Did you -- when you did your report on April 18, were you aware that the deposition of Sunview through its person most knowledgeable had been taken?

[1811]   A I was not aware.

[1812]   Q Don't you think that would have been a good thing for you to know?

[1813]   A That's a -- I can't -- I'm not hired to opine in that area. I think -- I think that any information that I can get from anyone to most effectively assert my expertise as a database analyst is important. So I think that it would have been extremely helpful to have that piece of information. If I had had this list that I just -- this list along with this list --I think this exhibit, which is Exhibit 7, would have been not a point of contention.

[1814]   Q Okay. Could I see the -- you just referred to as this list, a list on green paper. Could you show that to me?

[1815]   A Of course.

[1816]   Q Thank you.

[1817]   A Here you go.

[1818]   MR. MOLLAND: And we'll mark this as the next exhibit, please.

[1819]   (Deposition Exhibit 8 marked by the court reporter.) BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1820]   Q Exhibit 8 has on it a list that you said you wish you would have seen; right?

[1821]   A Yes.

[1822]   Q I'm going to read. There is a list, in addition to having frappuccino flavors on it, which I will ignore as I read it, has handwritten 10 - -- can you read --

[1823]   A Sure.

[1824]   Q -- what that reads? In fact, why don't you read the list you wrote on it.

[1825]   A Sure. And I'm going to write it down right here for myself. 10 is a manual makeup - hourly.

[1826]   Q Okay.

[1827]   A 11 is regular hours. 21 is piece rate. 31, computer generated makeup - hourly. 400, vacation. 412 is a bonus of some sort. 413 is a bonus on hours. Now --

[1828]   Q Is that the sum total of what you wrote on that page?

[1829]   A That is the sum total. I wrote it down here in real clear form, and I also -- I will give this back to you now.

[1830]   Q Okay.

[1831]   A Do you want a copy of this as an exhibit right now?

[1832]   Q We'll take care of it in due course.

[1833]   A Okay.

[1834]   Q And I guess your testimony is if you had known that information before you wrote your report you would have done your analysis a little differently; right?

[1835]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. Misstates testimony.

[1836]   THE WITNESS: If I would have been provided with the information that pay code 31 was an adjustment that is to be applied on the paycheck on which the hours, the accumulation of the daily hours were created into a paycheck to give to the employee and that that was a single line item not related to a particular day but to a paycheck for a sum of hours, I would have --BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1837]   Q You would have done what?

[1838]   A I would have certainly excluded 31, pay code 31 from my daily analysis, and it would have changed the numbers related only to employees where pay code 31 would have been apparent associated with a trans date rather than a paycheck date. And that's the only -- so far that's the only thing that it appears that I should have done differently.

[1839]   Q Okay.

[1840]   A And I will provide an errata.

[1841]   Q So, so far that's the only error you think you've made in your report; right?

[1842]   A I hope so.

[1843]   MR. MOLLAND: Okay. We'll mark as the next Exhibit 9.

[1844]   (Deposition Exhibit 9 marked by the

[1845]   court reporter.) BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1846]   Q I'll represent to you that Exhibit 9 is an exhibit that was marked and at least testimony was offered to be given on this. I'm not sure what the plaintiffs' lawyers did about it. But this exhibit was marked at the deposition of Mr. Dan Gallegos on behalf of Sunview Vineyards, which you referred to as the PMK deposition.

[1847]   A Okay. Did I refer to that wrong?

[1848]   Q No.

[1849]   A Oh, okay.

[1850]   Q But it's the same deposition that apparently you just had a phone call with Mr. Palau and maybe some others, and they --

[1851]   A Yeah, Mr. Palau and Mr. Tom Lynch.

[1852]   Q And they gave you the information that was on Exhibit 8; right?

[1853]   A Yes, sir.

[1854]   Q And if you -- why don't you turn through this.

[1855]   A Okay.

[1856]   Q And if you go about the middle of the document there will be a list of pay codes. Are those the pay codes that you said that you weren't supplied?

[1857]   A These are the pay codes that I was not -- or these are pay codes that were -- well, in particular, the pay code 31 says "makeup hours (computer generated rate to bring earnings to minimum wage)," but really it's an adjustment. And there's -- I don't know the nuances between "makeup hours (computer generated rate to bring earnings to minimum wage)" and adjustment, but I would have probably -- if --

[1858]   Q You'd probably have figured it out if you had seen this; right?

[1859]   A Yeah, I would have definitely made a -- I would have asked for further clarification if I had understood what 31 was. I thought that it was specifically tailored similar to No. 10 --

[1860]   Q Sure. I know you did.

[1861]   A -- except I thought it applied on that day's work, not on the overall paycheck.

[1862]   Q I understand that completely.

[1863]   A Yeah.

[1864]   Q But if you'd seen this list of pay codes with the notation that actually 31 was for makeup hours to bring earnings to a minimum wage, you would have at least known enough to say what the heck's going on here, and not do what you did; right?

[1865]   A No, no. I would say that I -- if I understood what this was meaning to the detail that I do today as we sit here right now, I would have used it in a different context. But just reading this description, this description, if you look at No. 10 and No. 31, there isn't a basis in No. 31 to state that this is on a check level rather than an individual work day level. I would have read this to be -- I would have treated this the same way as I did in today's based upon the description.

[1866]   Q So let's go -- my question to you was, the list of pay codes that are on -- this is Exhibit 9 of your deposition. The list of pay codes that are on this page are the same pay codes that are listed on Exhibit 8; right?

[1867]   A Oh, I'm sorry. They appear to be.

[1868]   Q And so they are the same pay codes that you learned about for the first time from Mr. Palau and Mr. Lynch in that phone call that you had this afternoon; right?

[1869]   A They are not the --

[1870]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. Misstates the testimony.

[1871]   THE WITNESS: I didn't learn about these pay codes. These pay codes have to be used in conjunction with other things. For instance, if you get a regular hours 11, but you get a job description of 899, you wouldn't use it anyway. So there's certain things that I was aware of and how to use them, but the description here and the way that I was told to use it is different than what I had been led to understand it to mean.

[1872]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1873]   Q Who told you how to use pay code 31?

[1874]   A Well --

[1875]   Q The answer is -- who told you how to use pay code 31?

[1876]   A Oh, okay. Tom Lynch.

[1877]   Q Who told you how to use pay code 10?

[1878]   A Well, it's --

[1879]   Q Who told you how to use pay code 10? Who?

[1880]   A It's -- well, Tom Lynch.

[1881]   Q Tom Lynch --

[1882]   A Tom Lynch told me how to use all the pay codes, except they were to apply specifically not to certain job codes.

[1883]   Q Okay. Mr. Lynch took the PMK deposition, didn't he?

[1884]   A I don't know who did. I -- I assume that's where that -- did he?

[1885]   Q When did you find that out? Do you know that for a fact?

[1886]   A No. I'm just asking, did he? I don't know.

[1887]   Q Well, are you the kind of expert that just takes anybody's word for how to use a pay code? Don't you think they should have some personal knowledge about the subject so you could verify that when they tell you something that they know what the heck they're doing?

[1888]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. Badgering the witness.

[1889]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1890]   Q I don't think I'm badgering at all. You're an expert. Do you rely --

[1891]   A I'm an expert in database analysis.

[1892]   Q Right. Do you rely upon the lawyers to tell you how to use the different pay codes and the data that you analyze?

[1893]   A Who else do I have to rely upon?

[1894]   Q Well, you could take a look at the PMK deposition yourself and see what the witness said and look at the documents he produced, but you didn't do that, did you?

[1895]   A Those documents were not made available to me.

[1896]   Q Did you -- did you do that?

[1897]   A If those documents had been made available to me, I certainly would have.

[1898]   Q Well, the PMK deposition was taken weeks before, at least days before your expert report came out, wasn't it?

[1899]   A I was not aware of it.

[1900]   Q Why not?

[1901]   A Because I'm not intimately involved in the nuances of the calendarings of my -- of my clients.

[1902]   Q Well, you've worked for the Mallison & Martinez firm for many times, you said 30 percent of all the work you do. That must be over ten of these class actions that --

[1903]   A 30 percent, where did you get that from? Hold on a second here.

[1904]   Q I think you said 30 percent of your income from your lawyers comes from the Mallison firm.

[1905]   A I said 20 -- 20 percent of my income -- 20 percent of that income comes from doing expert work.

[1906]   Q Right.

[1907]   A Okay.

[1908]   Q And of that 20 percent, 30 percent comes from the Mallison firm; right?

[1909]   A Is that what I said in my testimony?

[1910]   Q Yes, it is.

[1911]   A Okay.

[1912]   Q So I'm guessing that they must have given you at least ten class actions to work on as an expert over the past years. Right?

[1913]   A Well, you're talking percentage of income or percentage of work? I mean, you can't -- you've got to use a baseline that's the same. You can't --

[1914]   Q Is this the way it works when you work for the Mallison & Martinez firm, they tell you how to use the pay codes, and you just do what they tell you to do? You don't do any independent analysis of how the company itself actually uses pay codes?

[1915]   MR. MALLISON: I need to make an objection. Tom Lynch doesn't work for the Mallison & Martinez firm.

[1916]   MR. MOLLAND: Actually, that's a good objection. I'm sorry. I forgot about that.

[1917]   MR. MALLISON: And the second thing, Tom Lynch was at the deposition. You might as well make that clear to him.

[1918]   MR. MOLLAND: He took it.

[1919]   MR. MALLISON: He took it. And I think that he just -- he just heard what the transcript said.

[1920]   And the question really ought to be does it match what he was told.

[1921]   MR. MOLLAND: I don't know. I mean, he certainly was on inquiry as to what those documents said, and he either asked questions about them or he didn't, I can't remember, but he definitely should have.

[1922]   MR. MALLISON: You have the transcript here.

[1923]   MR. MOLLAND: And whether he did or not, I just don't know.

[1924]   MR. MALLISON: He did.

[1925]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1926]   Q Let's go back to this. Is it your custom and practice when working for the lawyers that you work for that when they give you data that has codes in them you rely upon them to tell you how to use the codes?

[1927]   A Well, I rely upon them to ask defendants what codes mean, and I trust the defendants are going to provide a full and accurate description of those codes.

[1928]   Q Okay. If you had known before you wrote your report that 31, code 31 referred to makeup hours and a computer generated rate to bring earnings to minimum wage, would you have done your minimum wage calculations differently?

[1929]   A I would have eliminated --

[1930]   Q Can you just answer me yes or no, and then I'll ask you what you did.

[1931]   A Yes, sure. If I understood -- if I had understood that what was written on the list of pay codes of Exhibit 9 was not in fact the way that it was used by Sunview on Exhibit 7, I would have done things differently.

[1932]   Q Sure. And if you had known that pay code 412 referred to bonus pay, would you have done your overtime calculations differently?

[1933]   A 412, bonus pay. Bonus pay was marked with an overtime code of -- I'm sorry. Overtime was marked with an overtime code of O as far as I'm aware in all circumstances.

[1934]   Q So my question is different. That is, if you had known that pay code 412 referred to bonus pay paid in units, would you have done your overtime calculations differently?

[1935]   A Does that say overtime pay or bonus pay?

[1936]   Q It says bonus pay.

[1937]   A How am I supposed to know what bonus pay is?

[1938]   Q Well, would you have wanted to know what the bonus -- what the overtime -- excuse me -- what the pay code related to bonus pay meant before you did your calculations?

[1939]   A When you have a field in here called overtime code, I mean --

[1940]   Q I'm not referring to overtime code. I'm referring to a pay code referring to Bonus-Inc, No. 412. If you have a pay code referring to bonus pay, would you have wanted to know how Sunview applied bonus pay in its payroll data before you did your work?

[1941]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. It calls for a legal conclusion.

[1942]   THE WITNESS: Yeah. I don't have any jurisdiction over what you guys use bonus pay for. I mean, if you guys had some other code for, for overtime pay that's in here or not in here, I have to go by what your data has been provided. I count on you to provide me accurate data and accurate descriptions. If you guys don't provide accurate descriptions and accurate information, and a judge looks at this and says: Wow, Mr. Woolfson you showed this, and a fact-finder shows that you guys haven't been doing something right, that you guys have been doing right because I have bad information, and he certifies this case, who is the bad guy? Am I the bad guy or are you the bad guy?

[1943]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1944]   Q I'm asking you some questions, and I would like you to answer my questions, please.

[1945]   A This is important.

[1946]   Q Take a look, please. It's a simple question. Exhibit 27, you didn't know about this list of pay codes and their explanations at the time you did your report. I'm not blaming you, but you just didn't know about it; right?

[1947]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. It misstates the testimony.

[1948]   THE WITNESS: I know about these pay codes. The way that I'm -- that I'm using them is in conjunction with a job description because if there's a job description in here that says vacation, all right, but your code in here says regular units, and there are circumstances where your data is mislabeled, would you want me to use that as a basis? BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1949]   Q I'm not asking -- I'm asking the questions. I'm not answering them, sir.

[1950]   A Well -- Q Would you please answer my question. I'm just asking you, you didn't see this page on Exhibit 27 which is titled List Pay Codes before you did your report, did you?

[1951]   A I was not provided with this page.

[1952]   Q Okay. And you would have done your report differently had you been provided with this page or you would have asked some questions that would have allowed you to do it differently; right?

[1953]   A I would have asked some questions about why -- what -- I would have asked for further clarification. But the way that these explanations are written, I would not have done my report differently because these descriptions are wrong.

[1954]   Q Okay.

[1955]   Now, there is an overtime code, right, in the Sunview database?

[1956]   A Correct.

[1957]   Q Do you have the slightest idea how Sunview used that?

[1958]   A If --

[1959]   Q No, I'm not saying if. Do you have the slightest idea?

[1960]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. Let him answer the question. The answer may start with an if, but that's a word.

[1961]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1962]   Q If is a word, but it suggests that I'm going to get another speech and perhaps some questions directed to me. I don't need to answer your questions. I am asking them.

[1963]   MR. MALLISON: Do you have a question? BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1964]   Q Do you know how Sunview used the overtime code marked O?

[1965]   A Based upon my experience as an expert in 49 cases that I've been retained on, an overtime pay code on data, if there is an overtime column and there is an O there -- see how I just shifted the if to the part of the sentence in a different part and you're not objecting? Amazing.

[1966]   Q Well, it is marveling to me, yeah. I'm aghast myself.

[1967]   A It's just amazing.

[1968]   But if there was a -- if there was --

[1969]   Q Let me remind you of the question again in case you --

[1970]   A No, I am answering the question right now as you asked me.

[1971]   Q Do you know how Sunview used the overtime code? Just to remind you it's a nice simple question. Go ahead. Do you know how Sunview used the overtime code O? Do you know? Yes; no. If yes, I'll ask you how. If no, we'll move on.

[1972]   A Yes.

[1973]   Q Good. So tell me how you know Sunview used the overtime code O?

[1974]   A First of all, to answer your question I did not rely upon the overtime code of O to determine if someone was paid overtime.

[1975]   Q Okay. Do you -- but that's not my question. You say you do know --

[1976]   A Well, I mean --

[1977]   Q -- how they used it. How did they use it?

[1978]   A They marked records O if they considered them overtime. However, overtime was marked with a pay rate of 1.5 times their normal rate if they had worked a shift that was less than 10 hours. So a shift of greatest -- where the number of hours exceeds 10 is marked at 1.5 times the regular rate. If there is an O there or not, I didn't rely upon the O. I relied upon the actual rate paid.

[1979]   Q Okay. That's good.

[1980]   Would you take a look at the CVS file, the data file which you are calling the CVS file?

[1981]   A Sure.

[1982]   MR. MALLISON: I don't think that's going to open.

[1983]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1984]   Q Can you turn to where the overtime field is in the CVS file?

[1985]   A There's no headers on the CVS file itself, so let me see here. Okay. 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8, 8 in. Okay. 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8. Okay. All right.

[1986]   Q So do you see any files that -- in which Sunview used the overtime code?

[1987]   A Well, they are -- they did use it within the data because I pulled up a, this list, and I provided you with a -- with a list of all of the values that appear as possibilities within that. So there are cases where they used it.

[1988]   Q Can you point out any one?

[1989]   MR. MALLISON: Again, same objection. If you provide him the SQL database, he will be able to do it.

[1990]   THE WITNESS: Yeah, I think that it would require me to use a SQL database.

[1991]   MR. MALLISON: You've had seven hours now to get one together.

[1992]   THE WITNESS: But as to, you know, overtime what I used was -- if the rate was there, it was 1.5 times their standard hourly rate for 8 hours. That's what I used. So even if it wasn't marked with an O, I used it. I showed it as an O. I used it. So we're only looking at -- we are only looking at 65,000 rows approximately out of millions and millions and millions of rows. I really need SQL.

[1993]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[1994]   Q However you calculated overtime, did you do it on a daily basis or for a payroll period?

[1995]   A I looked at it purely on a daily basis.

[1996]   Q Okay. That's good.

[1997]   And is there a file that you can point to that if somebody wanted to say, "I want to see what Aaron Woolfson did to make his overtime calculations that appear on paragraph 24," is there a file that you produced that we would go to that would show your work on that subject?

[1998]   A Yeah. So what I did for each employee on each work day is I established their regular rate and their overtime rate. And then I calculated the number of minutes that appeared in their -- in their data as hourly work. And then if it had -- if it met the rate that was 1.5 times their base pay, then it was considered overtime. And if it was not, then it was considered regular.

[1999]   Q Got you.

[2000]   And the file that you -- that collects the way you did this is called?

[2001]   A Work Data. It's not a file. It's a table within SQL.

[2002]   Q And how would you -- how would you find that table in the data you supplied? How would you enter -- what name would you enter?

[2003]   A Select star from Work Data.

[2004]   Q Select star from Work Data?

[2005]   A Yeah, with an asterisk. I'm sorry. Select asterisk from Work Data.

[2006]   Q And what would that -- if you put select asterisk from Work Data what does that bring up? What files do those bring up?

[2007]   A Well, that would bring up all the data that I worked on. If you wanted to provide filters --

[2008]   Q That's okay. Basically, go to the Work Data file which is that data file you identified before.

[2009]   And what was the name of that again? It was SQL --

[2010]   A Backup set.

[2011]   Q Backup set. You go to that file first?

[2012]   A Yeah, you would restore that to a SQL database restore point, and then you would do select star from Work Data.

[2013]   Q Then you go select asterisk or star --

[2014]   A Yeah.

[2015]   Q -- Work Data, and that would bring up the files?

[2016]   A It would bring up all of my -- all of my data. You could apply filters similar to how you can do it in Excel where you do a sort -- or you do a --you know, you sort, and then you eliminate -- by process of elimination you can go and see certain attributes.

[2017]   Q So if you -- but if you go to the SQL data file backup --

[2018]   A Right.

[2019]   Q -- and then enter select asterisk Work Data --

[2020]   A Select asterisk from Work Data.

[2021]   Q -- select asterisk from Work Data, you will bring up all your files in the memory stick that you supplied?

[2022]   A Yes, from Work Data.

[2023]   MR. MALLISON: You may not want to change --

[2024]   THE WITNESS: Excuse me.

[2025]   MR. MALLISON: You are on the same page?

[2026]   THE WITNESS: Yeah. This is a copy.

[2027]   MR. MALLISON: He just modified the copy. Is that okay?

[2028]   THE WITNESS: I didn't modify it, Stan. I didn't modify it.

[2029]   MR. MALLISON: Well, you did and then you undid, so --

[2030]   THE WITNESS: I did not save changes. Those are -- these are exact copies.

[2031]   MR. MALLISON: All right.

[2032]   THE WITNESS: There's no changes.

[2033]   MR. MALLISON: I don't care as long as they are cool with whatever the result is.

[2034]   THE WITNESS: Yeah, I did not.

[2035]   MR. MALLISON: That's all.

[2036]   THE WITNESS: Okay.

[2037]   MR. MALLISON: I want to make sure there is not a problem there.

[2038]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[2039]   Q Did anybody from, that you understand, and also for the plaintiffs ask you for assistance in asking questions at the PMK deposition of Mr. Gallegos in this case?

[2040]   A I don't think so.

[2041]   Q Were you involved in any way in preparing for -- yourself -- the deposition, the corporate deposition of Sunview through Mr. Gallegos?

[2042]   A Did I --

[2043]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. Vague.

[2044]   THE WITNESS: I'm not -- I'm not sure. You used a couple of words I'm not familiar with. I'm sorry. Clarify?

[2045]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[2046]   Q To your understanding, did you assist in the preparation of anybody for the deposition of --corporate deposition of Sunview?

[2047]   MR. MALLISON: Objection, vague.

[2048]   THE WITNESS: Yeah, I didn't -- I wasn't involved in any -- anything regarding any depositions of anyone. I wasn't aware of any depositions taking place.

[2049]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[2050]   Q Okay. Until today you weren't aware that the corporate deposition of Sunview did take place; right?

[2051]   A I wasn't aware. I'm only -- like I say, I'm only vaguely aware of things. Just I have a lot of -- a lot of -- I count on my clients to provide things like this a lot and to relay information to me, so.

[2052]   Q Do you have any advanced degrees in either database management, statistics, computer science, you name it, that relates in general to electronic data and its interpretation?

[2053]   A Well, I've been working with SQL databases since they were -- before they were widely available on Windows. And I've been using databases since I've been 14 years old. My first full-time job was with the University of Illinois to work on a complex database project when I was 15.

[2054]   Q My question goes to degrees. Are you getting there?

[2055]   A Yeah, but my experiences have been almost exclusively related to realtime involvement with databases through work experience.

[2056]   Q That wasn't my question. My question is, do you have any degrees, educational degrees from any institution relating to databases, computer science, statistics, you name it?

[2057]   A I do not have a degree in the aforementioned fields.

[2058]   Q Do you have any degree at all from any recognized institution, accredited institution?

[2059]   A I went to college for four years, but did not apply for any degree, as I stopped to create a business called TelSwitch that specializes in databases for telecommunications carriers --specialized at the time in telecommunications databases.

[2060]   Q So the answer is no, I don't have any degrees from any accredited institution?

[2061]   A I don't have a degree.

[2062]   Q From any educational institution whatsoever; right?

[2063]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. Vague.

[2064]   THE WITNESS: I don't have a degree in the areas that you have asked me about.

[2065]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[2066]   Q Do you have a degree from any educational institution in anything, and field of endeavor, any field of science, any field of anything?

[2067]   A I do not have a college degree. All my experience is through work.

[2068]   Q Okay. Now, in some places there will be a --people can go get training, it's not a college degree, and they end up with some kind of certification or degree either in a particular computer science or particular application of computer science or a particular type of database management. Do you have any certifications or degrees like that?

[2069]   A I am -- no. No, I do not.

[2070]   Q Do you know of anybody who is Microsoft certified? Have you heard the term or have you ever heard the term "Microsoft certified"?

[2071]   A I have heard the term. I know people who are both Microsoft certified, Oracle certified, Cisco certified, MySQL certified, Sybase certified. The list goes on.

[2072]   Q Are you certified in any of those or in fact anything at all? Any sort of training or science or discipline?

[2073]   A Other than 20-plus years of work experience, no.

[2074]   Q Okay. Are you certified in SQL?

[2075]   A I never took a certification course in SQL.

[2076]   Q Have you taken any courses in SQL?

[2077]   A Nothing that has been part of any institution of learning.

[2078]   Q Have you taken any kind of certification that has not been a part of an institution or it has just been some kind of certification or training in SQL that a third party gave you so you basically --

[2079]   A That a third party gave me.

[2080]   Q A third party gave you.

[2081]   A Well, I think as part of my work experience I read SQL manuals and those types of articles related to SQL all the time. I mean, I'm always looking at books on SQL and SQL efficient database design. But nothing that I used specifically related to this case.

[2082]   Q Has any third party ever taught you a course on SQL?

[2083]   A Third party taught me a course? There is no -- I have not taken a formal course that was within the construct of a curriculum.

[2084]   Q Have you ever taken and passed a test on SQL?

[2085]   A I have never taken a test on SQL.

[2086]   Q Have you ever taken a test and passed it on any aspect of database management?

[2087]   A I have not taken courses; however, I am often consulted by and hired by companies that engage in those activities to tutor them in such aspects.

[2088]   Q Okay. Have you ever taken a test and passed it on SQL?

[2089]   A I have never taken any test on SQL.

[2090]   Q Have you ever taken a test on anything that relates to database management and passed it?

[2091]   A I have not taken tests on database management.

[2092]   Q Have you ever worked for anybody who had a business in database management other than your current company? I can't -- I'm sorry. I should remember the name of it. It's not coming to me. What is it again?

[2093]   A TelSwitch.

[2094]   Q TelSwitch. I'm sorry. Yeah, TelSwitch.

[2095]   Have you worked for anybody besides TelSwitch as an employee in the field of database management?

[2096]   A The University of Illinois.

[2097]   Q Okay. Anybody else?

[2098]   A My CV contains a vast amount of technical and industry experience. Consulted, is that employed by?

[2099]   Q No.

[2100]   A Would you consider consulting --

[2101]   Q I did take a look at your CV. I just want to know whether you've actually been employed as an employee by anybody doing database management?

[2102]   A Not as database management except for the University of Illinois.

[2103]   Q Okay. Fine.

[2104]   MR. MALLISON: I guess I'm retroactively objecting on the vagueness of the phrase database management.

[2105]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[2106]   Q I took a look at -- you attached a couple of these cases where you have reported decisions where you have functioned as an expert that were attached to your resume. Do you remember that?

[2107]   A What are you -- are you talking about this document here?

[2108]   Q No, actually I'm talking about your expert report.

[2109]   A Okay.

[2110]   Q And I think it's Exhibit 4. I think you have it in front of you there. Do you see it there? Is it Exhibit 4?

[2111]   A Okay.

[2112]   Q Just look at the front page, please, and see what exhibit number it is. It's 4, is it not?

[2113]   A I'll look. Yeah, I have a list of the exhibits, just a second.

[2114]   Q Mr. Woolfson, can you look at the front page of that and just tell what exhibit number it is?

[2115]   A Exhibit 4.

[2116]   Q 4. Okay.

[2117]   A I'm sorry. I thought you meant Exhibit 4 to my Exhibit 4.

[2118]   Q Could you look at the -- there's a couple of cases, case analyses that are attached, one being the KFC analysis. As I understand it, you were at least excluded as part -- in part -- as an expert in that case; right? As a --

[2119]   A Well, I don't know if I was or not. There were probably parts in there that the judge didn't feel that my -- the allegations were substantial enough by the plaintiff, and therefore my testimony may have been irrelevant during those parts. But I don't think I was specifically excluded as an expert.

[2120]   Q Putting aside the KFC case, is there any other case where you've testified as an expert where you have been excluded by the court as an expert whose opinion the court will not rely upon? Do you know what I'm talking about?

[2121]   A I don't believe that that's -- can you show me where the judge specifically said that my testimony is being excluded?

[2122]   Q Let me just ask you this. Can you think of any case where a judge has excluded your testimony as an expert because they didn't believe you had sufficient expertise?

[2123]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. Vague as to excluded.

[2124]   THE WITNESS: Yeah, I can't think of a case where the judge specifically said my expertise wasn't sufficient. I don't think that's what you're asking, but I'm not sure what you are asking.

[2125]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[2126]   Q Have you ever been -- has a court, to your understanding, ever made any determination that you were not qualified as an expert in any way?

[2127]   A No.

[2128]   Q Except in the KFC case; right?

[2129]   A Well, I don't -- I'm not aware that the KFC --

[2130]   MR. MALLISON: Objection. Misstates testimony.

[2131]   THE WITNESS: -- case states that I'm not an expert.

[2132]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[2133]   Q Well, it included, at least in part, that you're not a qualified expert to offer opinions on statistical analysis; right?

[2134]   A Well, I'm not a statistician.

[2135]   Q So you would not -- you are not an expert statistician; right?

[2136]   A Well, why would I make myself out to be an expert in statistician -- or an expert in statistics? I'm not claiming to be an expert in statistics. I'm a database analyst. You know, in that particular circumstance I think -- I think defendants stated that I'm not qualified because I'm not an expert in statistics. And I think that both the judge and I agree I'm not an expert in statistics. I'm an expert in database analysis. And I think the judge makes that very clear, If you think that you can state to the contrary.

[2137]   Q I know what I was going to ask you. Bear with me, I'm almost finished here.

[2138]   There is a number of data arrays, number arrays, attached to your report, and I think it's in exhibit -- I think it's Exhibit 1. Can you turn to that, please?

[2139]   A Exhibit 1 to my Exhibit 4, is that what you're talking about?

[2140]   Q No, it's -- the first page of it -- it's attached to your expert report. The first page says "Exhibit 1. List of employees provided by Sunview and the Number of Shifts worked by each employee." And then after it is a long document with a bunch of numbers. I would say it's over 100 pages or near 100 pages. Do you see that?

[2141]   A Yes.

[2142]   Q Okay. What is that? What is that intended to represent?

[2143]   A Well, that's just a list of the employees and their start and stop date, number of shifts that they worked during that time, and then the number of minutes -- the number of shifts with the number of minutes, respective to the totals.

[2144]   Q Okay. How did you compile this?

[2145]   A It's done in SQL. The first thing to do is create a list of employee number, the number of shifts appearing, then the start and the finish, so you just say: Look -- attach the first date that appears in the data and the last date that appears in the data.

[2146]   So a shift can be -- you know, there are shifts in here where people are paid exclusively on piece rate. There's no hours listed. So that will appear in shifts, but it won't appear in the columns to the right because there's no number of minutes associated with some of those. There's a few of those, it's not many, but there are some of those, so --

[2147]   Q So what you're saying is -- I don't think I quite follow that. So you've got the employee, you have the number of shifts, you have the start and finish times; right? And then you have a bunch of shifts that are arrayed between hours I guess in the day, how long they worked?

[2148]   A Number of minutes --

[2149]   Q Number of minutes.

[2150]   A -- as an accumulation of the shift segments for that employee that day.

[2151]   Q So shifts 1 -- 0 to 1, 1 to 2, 2 to 3, what does that mean?

[2152]   A Shifts 0 to 1 hour, shifts 1 to 2 hours, and the number of minutes above it.

[2153]   Q And I think I wouldn't quite get it, but if you add up all the numbers on the right-hand side of the finish date, should that total the shifts there on the left-hand side of the start date?

[2154]   A Not in all cases because there are shifts that show just the piece rate in a day, you know, an amount for, you know, working a certain amount of days -- I'm sorry -- an amount for working on a certain number of items, and there is no time element there. So you'll see on the left-hand side occasionally where there's more shifts and the sum of the shifts, of segments by hours.

[2155]   Q Okay. Let's take an easy example here because it looks like there's no numbers in it. It's down the page about 12 times. There's an employee 548515117. Do you see that? Do you see that?

[2156]   A I'm looking right now.

[2157]   Q I'm sorry. And I know it's kind of busy here.

[2158]   A 5485 -- yeah.

[2159]   Q About No. 13?

[2160]   A Yeah, on the right-hand side it shows under shifts 8 to 9 it shows 3.

[2161]   Q Exactly.

[2162]   A There is actually 4 shifts.

[2163]   Q There is 4 shifts.

[2164]   A Yeah.

[2165]   Q And the one that doesn't appear there would be a piece --

[2166]   A Piece.

[2167]   Q -- piece rate.

[2168]   A Yeah.

[2169]   Q Now, if you total up all the shifts that you have, and there's a lot of pages, I guess --

[2170]   A Yes.

[2171]   Q -- all those numbers should tabulate -- if you -- can you add up all the numbers and come out with the totals? I don't see -- you didn't do it. If you total the numbers, would you know -- for instance, if you total all the numbers in the first column all the way down, would you have the total number of shifts which were less than one hour for all the employees? Is that the way it works?

[2172]   A You should, yes. Well, I shouldn't say less than 1 hour, right, because it's really 1 hour or less. So up to 1 hour would be 59 minutes.

[2173]   Q Yeah.

[2174]   Okay. I don't think I have anything more other than to give you your check. Thank you. I know that we had a little difficult time communicating on some of these questions.

[2175]   A Hey --

[2176]   Q I thank you for bearing with me.

[2177]   A -- it's not my first dance.

[2178]   Q Now, let me ask you this. Do you need copies of anything that were marked as exhibits that you'd like to keep -- oh, I guess we should mark -- you took some notes here --

[2179]   A Yes.

[2180]   Q -- that you referred to.

[2181]   A You can have those.

[2182]   Q Let's mark those as Exhibit 10. You can get a copy of those.

[2183]   MR. MALLISON: If I could get a copy of that, I'll make sure he gets a copy. How's that?

[2184]   MR. MOLLAND: When you refer to "that" I don't know what you mean.

[2185]   MR. MALLISON: The exhibits.

[2186]   MR. MOLLAND: We'll mark the witness's notes.

[2187]   Q These are the notes you took during the deposition; is that right?

[2188]   A Yes.

[2189]   Q Or did you take them some other time?

[2190]   A I just took those during the deposition, sir.

[2191]   MR. MALLISON: Do you want to do a Southern California stipulation or --

[2192]   MR. MOLLAND: You're way beyond me.

[2193]   So just for recordkeeping purposes, before we go off the record let's make sure we have all the exhibits so the court reporter will have them because I tend to walk off with them and sometimes witnesses do too.

[2194]   MR. MALLISON: Speaking of. Here's 9.

[2195]   THE WITNESS: Yeah, let's see here.

[2196]   (Deposition Exhibit 10 marked by the court reporter.)

[2197]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[2198]   Q You told me that you would supply, as I recall, a list, I can't remember if it was codes or dates, remember in the morning?

[2199]   A For the SQL implementation?

[2200]   Q Yes.

[2201]   A Yes.

[2202]   Q Were you able to do that during the lunch hour?

[2203]   A I didn't look it up. I didn't have Internet --

[2204]   MR. MALLISON: We can do that.

[2205]   THE WITNESS: -- access. BY MR. MOLLAND:

[2206]   Q You can do that later.

[2207]   A I will do it. I will make sure that you get it --

[2208]   Q And we'll mark that --

[2209]   A -- from Mr. Mallison.

[2210]   Q Okay.

[2211]   And we'll mark that Exhibit 11 to the deposition. When it comes, I'll just send it to the court reporter, and we will agree that it will be marked as Exhibit 11.

[2212]   (Deposition Exhibit 11 to be sent to the

[2213]   court reporter and marked.)

[2214]   THE WITNESS: And you'll be receiving an errata with the adjustments for the overtime before much longer because I want you guys to have that to be accurate.

[2215]   BY MR. MOLLAND:

[2216]   Q Okay. And we'll just kind of reserve our rights on that.

[2217]   A Yeah, of course.

[2218]   Q And we'll just see if that's going to require any additional deposition or whether it's going to require anything at all, but if it does we'll --

[2219]   A Thank you.

[2220]   Q -- make a record on it. And I'm not saying you can't do it, and if you'd like to, you will, and I'm not making you, but you'll do whatever you are going to do.

[2221]   A I want to do it so it reflects the correct overtime hours. I think it will reduce the number of overtime.

[2222]   MR. MALLISON: Shall we stipulate to that we'll hold the original at our offices so he can review them, relieve the court reporter of her obligation to do so? SoCal stipulations I'm talking about.

[2223]   MR. MOLLAND: So we're going to go outside the code and have a stipulation that you'll keep the original of the deposition?

[2224]   MR. MALLISON: He can review it at our offices and make any adjustments, if any.

[2225]   MR. MOLLAND: Okay. I always don't like to do that, but this is an expert deposition --

[2226]   MR. MALLISON: I don't want to travel.

[2227]   MR. MOLLAND: -- and I can see there may be some reason for you to do that. As long as -- no reflection on your office because my office is just --has just as many problems keeping the original intact and ensuring that it's going to be in good condition whenever we need it. But as long as you'll assure me you'll do your best to do that --

[2228]   MR. MALLISON: I will.

[2229]   MR. MOLLAND: -- in this situation because it's an expert deposition I understand how you're requesting it, and so be it.

[2230]   Thank you.

[2231]   THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. Are you ready to go off?

[2232]   MR. MOLLAND: Yeah.

[2233]   MR. MALLISON: So stipulated.

[2234]   MR. MOLLAND: So stipulated. Yeah.

[2235]   THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This ends today's deposition of Aaron Woolfson and the end of media No. 3. Off the record at 5:36 p.m.

[2236]   THE REPORTER: Mr. Mallison, are you ordering a copy?

[2237]   MR. MALLISON: Let me get your card.

[2238]   MR. MOLLAND: We'd like to get a rough of this. The actual original it makes no difference when we get it, but we'd like a rough as soon as we can get it, please.

[2239]   THE REPORTER: Thank you. (5:32 p.m.)

[2240]   I, AARON WOOLFSON, do hereby declare under penalty of perjury that I have read the foregoing transcript; that I have made such corrections as noted herein, in ink, initialed by me, or attached hereto; that my testimony as contained herein, as corrected, is true and correct.

[2241]   EXECUTED this _____ day of __________, 2011, at ______________________ ,___________________.

[2242]   (City) (State)


[2244]   I, the undersigned, a Certified Shorthand Reporter of the State of California, do hereby certify:

[2245]   That the foregoing proceedings were taken before me at the time and place herein set forth; that any witnesses in the foregoing proceedings, prior to testifying, were duly sworn; that a record of the proceedings was made by me using machine shorthand which was thereafter transcribed under my direction; that the foregoing transcript is a true record of the testimony given.

[2246]   Further, that if the foregoing pertains to the original transcript of a deposition in a Federal Case, before completion of the proceedings, review of the transcript [X] was [ ] was not requested.

[2247]   I further certify I am neither financially interested in the action nor a relative or employee of any attorney or party to this action.

[2248]   IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have this date subscribed my name.


[2250]   CSR No. 5049


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