VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF AARON WOOLFSON
San Francisco, California
Reported by: ELAINE A. DELLINGES, RPR CSR No. 5049
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA FRESNO DIVISION
SANTIAGO ROJAS, JOSEPHINO RAMIREZ, CATALINA ROBLES; JUAN MONTES; BENITO ESPINO; GUILLERMINA PEREZ; on behalf of themselves and a class of Case No. others similarly situated, Plaintiffs, v. MARKO ZANINOVICH, INC., SUNVIEW VINEYARDS OF CALIFORNIA, INC., a California corporation; and DOES 1 to 20, inclusive, Defendants.
Videotaped Deposition of AARON WOOLFSON, taken on behalf of Defendants, at One Market Street, Spear Tower, 28th Floor, San Francisco, California, beginning at 10:21 a.m. and ending at 5:37 p.m., on Tuesday, May 3, 2011, before ELAINE A. DELLINGES, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 5049.
INDEX WITNESS: EXAMINATIONS AARON WOOLFSON
Exhibit 1 Notice of Taking Deposition 19 of Aaron Woolfson and Request to Produce Documents at Deposition Exhibit 2 A list of codes stamped 21 Confidential Exhibit 3 Five invoices to Mallison & 23 Martinez (Sunview) from TelSwitchInc.
Exhibit 4 Expert Report of Aaron 38 Woolfson Exhibit 5 A spreadsheet titled Example 109 1 Exhibit 6 A spreadsheet titled Example 113 2 Exhibit 7 A spreadsheet titled Example 122 3 Part II Exhibit 8 A list handwritten by the 175 witness on a green Starbucks paper
Exhibit 9 An exhibit which was marked 178 as Exhibit 27 in the deposition of Mr. Dan Gallegos on behalf of Sunview Vineyards Exhibit 10 Handwritten notes made by the 211 witness Exhibit 11 A list for the SQL 212
** implementation (to be sent to the court reporter.)
REQUEST TO MARK THE RECORD
** Exhibit retained by the witness and to be marked when it is sent to the court reporter.
San Francisco, California, Tuesday, May 3, 2011 10:21 a.m. - 5:37 p.m.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. Here begins media No. 1 of the deposition of Aaron Woolfson in the matter of Santiago Rojas versus Marko Zaninovich, et al. This case is in the U.S. District Court, Eastern District of California, Fresno Division, and the case number is 1189077. Today's date is May 3, 2011, and the time is 10:21 a.m.
This deposition is taking place at One Market Street, Spear Tower, 28th Floor, in San Francisco, California, and it's being taken on behalf of the plaintiffs. The videographer is Bart Reis appearing on behalf of Wood & Randall.
All present, take notice that as a part of the videotaping of this deposition very sensitive high-quality microphones are being used. If anyone present wishes to make a statement or have a conversation off the record, they should state that they are going off the record and gain concurrence from all parties. The videographer will then stop recording. All recorded comments made by anyone present during this deposition will be assumed on the record and will be transcribed.
Would counsel please identify yourself and state whom you represent.
MR. MOLLAND: Michael Molland for defendants.
MR. MALLISON: Stan Mallison on behalf of plaintiffs.
MR. MOLLAND: And with me in the room there are some representatives of my client. Would you identify yourselves, please.
MR. SWANSON: I'm Dale Swanson from Sunview Vineyards.
MR. STEPHENS: Kent Stephens; Marko Zaninovich, Incorporated.
MR. GALLEGOS: Dan Gallegos; Sunview Vineyards.
MR. MOLLAND: Okay. Swear the witness and we'll get rolling.
AARON WOOLFSON, having been first duly affirmed, was examined and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION BY MR. MOLLAND:
Q Please state your full name and place of business for the record, please.
A My name is Aaron Woolfson, A-a-r-o-n W-o-o-l-f-s-o-n. I'm with TelSwitch, Inc. My principal location of business is at 343 East Main Street, Suite 319, Stockton, California 95202.
Q Okay. What's your business that you do there? You said you have a principal place of business. What do you do in your business?
A That's a pretty broad question.
Q Okay. Do the best you can.
A Okay. TelSwitch, Inc. primarily builds, designs and develops large-scale databases for the collection and dissemination and analysis of huge sets of data. I've been doing this for 20 years of which 16 years of those have been under the auspices of TelSwitch, Inc., which is my company.
Q What do you do for TelSwitch?
A I am the founder and chief data architect.
Q Is your title Founder and Chief Data Architect?
A I don't have a title imprinted on my business card, but I have always expressed myself to be founder and chief data architect.
How many people work for TelSwitch, the company you founded?
A We have four contractors and three employees, including myself.
Q Okay. Who are the employees?
A My mother, Betty Woolfson, is my cash flow manager; Michael Foster, who is a electronic design extraordinaire; and myself.
Q Okay. So basically you've got three employees including you, and one's your mom; right?
Q Has TelSwitch ever had any other employees besides you, your mom, and Mr. Foerster -- or Foster?
A We've had several employees over the years. I'm not -- I'm not sure they're relevant in any manner to what I've been retained as an expert to do.
Q They may or may not be.
A We've had other employees, yes.
Q I don't know. That's why I'm asking the questions.
Who has worked for you besides those two people?
A There has been a gentleman named Chris Hall.
Q Okay. What's Chris done?
A Chris has done SQL database implementations with me.
A There's been a gentleman named Chris Searls.
A Chris Searls is just a general administrative individual with no particular title.
A Laurie Minouei, L-a-u-r-i-e M-i-n-o-u-e-i. She was my assistant, clerical.
A Jerry was a business strategist.
And all these people were employees of TelSwitch?
A In some form as I would consider employees, yes.
Q Okay. Anybody else you can recall?
A There were a couple of people that I just I don't remember over the years that have worked for us. I don't remember their last names.
A Kendra, and I don't remember the other two or three people's names.
Q Okay. So you worked or founded and your chief business is at TelSwitch. Do you have any other businesses, anything else you do to make some money besides testify as an expert witness or consultant in litigation?
A My full or fairly full and extensive experiences in both consulting and private industry and software development is as listed on my CV, which is on the USB stick that I provided you today.
Q Okay. So basically you do some consulting work with lawyers in litigation; right?
A I'm hired as an expert frequently by attorneys in the area of database analysis, yes, among other things.
Q You work at TelSwitch also; --
And You do some consulting outside of TelSwitch, is that right, for non-lawyers and --
A All of my business experiences as far as the relationship formalities fall under the auspices of TelSwitch Inc. So whether I'm working with SAIC or I'm working with Experion or some other large company or whether I'm working for the attorneys it's always been under the auspices of TelSwitch.
Q Fair enough. So you make your money through TelSwitch --
Q -- in doing consulting; right?
Q Some of the consulting is with attorneys, some of it is with other people; right?
Q How much is with other people and how much with attorneys in the past couple of years, can you estimate?
A I would say 20 percent of my revenue for the last 2-and-a-half years has been from attorneys and 80 percent has been from other endeavors.
Of the 20 percent that's with attorneys how much is from the Mallison & Martinez firm in the last couple of years?
Q Do you have any other law firm that has retained you as much as Mallison & Martinez in the last two or three years?
A Rastegar & Matern in Los Angeles. Altshuler Berzon, San Francisco. Those are the firms that come to mind primarily.
And you said in your report, which we'll get to, I promise --
Q -- that you've worked at much of what you call, quote, meal and break class action lawsuits?
Q Do you recall that? Okay.
How much of your work in the last 2 or 3 years comprises work that you have done consulting for attorneys in meal and break class action lawsuits, if you can estimate, as opposed to doing some other kind of work?
MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object on vagueness grounds. Are you talking of the percentage?
Q How much of your time, how much of your revenue? I mean, that's a good way to do it.
MR. MALLISON: Of the time doing wage an hour class action cases or of the time of his total time?
MR. MOLLAND: Let me rephrase the question --
MR. MALLISON: Yeah, that would be good.
MR. MOLLAND: Since you have a problem with it.
Q You've said about 20 percent of your time --20 percent of your income actually -- is derived from working consulting with attorneys, and now I'm going to ask you how much of that time of your income for that 20 percent is derived from working on what you referred to as meal and break class action lawsuits in your report?
Q So I mean it would be fair to say that the predominant amount of your consulting work is as an expert in meal and class -- excuse me -- in meal and break class action lawsuits; correct?
A The predominant amount of time that I'm spending with attorneys is being retained as an expert, a database analysis expert in class actions related to meal and break.
Q Perfect. And I may follow up on that. But I'm just trying to get the landscape here to begin with.
A All right. Not specifically and exclusively related to meal and break, but as a category. If somebody were to ask me what type of cases these are, I would say meal and breaks.
Q Good. We can follow up on that.
Now, and that's been over the last what, what period of time, two or three years or longer?
Now, I've he gone through your report. I'm going to ask you lots of questions about it, but I'm just trying to get the parameters right now.
Q You referred to a particular software or tool that you used to analyze data here. And I'm just going to ask you whether you have a name for it. You used a couple of letters like SQL. My guess is that -- it's kind of a long question -- but my guess is that you have some software that you use to analyze data that you get from defendants in meal and break class action lawsuits that you use in your consulting practice. Would that be fair to say?
A Microsoft produces a piece of software called SQL Query Analyzer. It's a piece of software that comes packaged with their Microsoft SQL server CD ROM. One of the components is called a SQL Analyzer.
And just for the -- for your benefit, when I say SQL it's SQL upper case.
And that is the primary tool that I used in the development of my findings in my report.
Q Okay. And I kind of -- that's sort of the way I read that is that you have a tool that you use, and it's probably called the SQL tool, which I wasn't familiar with, but I'm sure you know a heck of a lot about it. Would it be fair to say in the last 2-and-a-half years when you've been doing this work consulting for attorneys in meal and break class actions that what you do or try to do at least is to get a bunch of electronic data from the defendants and then use the CQL tool to analyze it in one form or another?
Q S -- is that correct, though? Is that essentially what you do? Is that the process and procedure that you follow?
A Well, the process is -- I mean, there is a very long process and set of procedures.
Q I'm not really trying -- we'll get into all those.
Q -- can I interrupt you just a second? --
Q -- because I really, I don't mean to pin you down with this. I'm just trying to figure out what the parameters are of the software tool that you've used, okay. And --
MR. MOLLAND: This is your money. We have to take time off for that.
THE WITNESS: Well, welcome.
MR. MOLLAND: It's the first smile he's had on his face since he's sat down.
OFFICE ASSISTANT: Do you have a business card?
THE WITNESS: I do. I'll just write my tax ID number on the back of it for you.
OFFICE ASSISTANT: Thank you, sir.
THE WITNESS: I try to do my best.
MR. MOLLAND: We have a -- by the way, Mr. Mallison, we have a dial-in number for other people who want to participate. I forgot. I didn't -- I think I told you that or told somebody at your office.
MR. MALLISON: You have somebody coming in?
MR. MOLLAND: Yeah, we have another person --and you can certainly use it to. I'm not sure my secretary forwarded it around. I just got it, so I'm going to --
MR. MALLISON: Who is going to be on the line?
MR. MOLLAND: Let me give you the number here.
MR. MALLISON: I assume 415, start there.
MR. MOLLAND: No, 866. It's toll free. (866) 963-7123, and when you get in to that the participant code is 4740, 4740.
MR. MALLISON: All right. Who do you have calling in?
MR. MOLLAND: We'll find out. I don't know I have anybody calling in, but I forgot to -- I have to go call them myself to see whether we have anybody who is going to be on the line.
Can you read that back to me? My BlackBerry got completely fried.
MR. MALLISON: Sure. (866) 963-7123 and then --
MR. MOLLAND: Hi. Who is on, please?
MS. BROCKMAN: This is Amy Brockman at ARPC.
And she's with us. And if you want to distribute that, that's -- I'm sorry. I didn't --
MR. MALLISON: Oh, you didn't?
MR. MOLLAND: -- get it until this morning.
Q So I was asking you about the SQL tool. And is there any other description you can give me of it other than what you've already testified to that would explain what it is?
A The exact name of the tool is SQL Query,
A And it comes prepackaged with the client tools of Microsoft SQL server.
Q And do you use that tool at least in part in your analysis in this case?
A Right, this is the primary tool I use in the analysis in all of the cases that I've worked on.
A It's the same tool I use universally.
Q Okay. And that really was my question whether in every meal and break class action lawsuit that you're involved in as a consultant for a lawyer this is the tool that you use to come up with your analysis. Would that be fair to say?
A Right, as an expert that is hired to do database analysis.
I'll mark as the first exhibit the notice of taking your deposition.
(Deposition Exhibit 1 marked by the
Q Have you seen this deposition notice, Mr. Woolfson?
Q The deposition notice requires or --requires -- I'm sorry -- requests you bring certain documents that are listed in 16 requests that follow. Did you bring all those documents to the deposition?
A I did. The documents are primarily on the USB stick and then -- well, let's go through the list and I'll tell you where each one of these documents is.
MR. MALLISON: Why don't you do that. BY MR. MOLLAND:
Q To save time, you know, you can just go through the request and apparently you are going to tell me which ones you have on the stick that you brought and which others you brought in some other form. So go right ahead. Start with request 1 and work your way down the line --
Q -- and tell me where the documents now reside.
A Okay. All documents reviewed by deponent -- Stan, may I have the list of codes?
THE WITNESS: That's the only --
MR. MALLISON: It might be helpful if you introduce that as an exhibit the document he gave you on codes.
THE WITNESS: I didn't give -- this is the only.
MR. MOLLAND: I don't think I got anything.
THE WITNESS: This is the document.
MR. MALLISON: That's a document for you guys.
THE WITNESS: This is your document, a list of codes that were used in your data.
MR. MOLLAND: Okay. Exhibit 2. We'll mark it as Exhibit 2.
(Deposition Exhibit 2 marked by the court reporter.)
Q All the documents you reviewed are on Exhibit 2 or are there others?
A Well, this is the only paper document. The other documents are on the USB drive.
Q Perfectly well stated. Okay. So the only paper documents you looked at to form your opinions in this case are on Exhibit 2.
A The only paper version of a document that was used in part to -- in conjunction with the other documents that are in their entirety on the USB stick, those are what I relied upon for the -- to conduct my analysis. (Interruption.)
MR. MOLLAND: We can get both of those.
THE WITNESS: This is your copy. I actually produced that for you, if you'd like that.
MR. MOLLAND: Thank you very much, Pearl.
Q Okay. So we have all the paper documents you reviewed either in whole or in part to form your opinion. They are on Exhibit 2.
Let's go to Request 2. Did you bring all the documents relied upon by you to -- that relate to your opinions?
A Yes, those are on the USB stick.
Q And you produced to us a 8 gigabyte Toshiba
Q I'm going to trust you that everything is on there. We'll probably go through it later on today, but I appreciate that and thank you for it.
Q Request No. 3 are all documents considered by deponent. Are there any additional documents you considered other than the Exhibit 2 and the 8 gigabyte flash drive?
A There's a -- there's some notes that I used or I took.
Q Okay. May I see those, please?
A Just a second, please. Make sure -- yeah, here they are. These are the four invoices that I produced toward Mallison & Martinez.
THE WITNESS: And those, there's --
MR. MALLISON: Could you make some copies of those?
MR. MOLLAND: Sure. We can do it during the break. I'm just going to mark them now. We'll call that Exhibit 3.
THE WITNESS: And those are the only notes that are outside of the notes that would be on that USB stick.
MR. MOLLAND: So that will be Exhibit 3.
(Deposition Exhibit 3 marked by the court reporter.)
Q Request 4 is for all documents that constitute or comprise any opinions or conclusions. I assume that that would include the expert report that's been produced to us. Anything else?
A Which? I'm sorry. Which request?
Yes, that includes the printed expert report which is also included on that USB drive.
Q Request No. 5 are for all communications by you with any person. I suppose those would be e-mails with lawyers and stuff like that. Did you produce any of that or does any of that exist?
A -- is included on the USB stick under a folder called E-Mails.
Q Under a folder called ES?
Request No. 6 is for deponent's complete file. Is that also on the memory stick that you produced?
A That is included on the memory stick.
Q Did you have -- was there anybody who assisted you in any way in compiling your expert opinion, doing analysis that is reflected in your expert opinion report in this case?
A I was the sole analyst and author of my work product.
Q Did you get help from anybody who was to give you any advice when you did your work?
A Well, that's a pretty broad question.
Q -- if your answer is yes, then I can drill down.
A Yeah. All right. There was nobody that I relied upon to conduct or to create the conclusions in my expert report.
Q Okay. A little different question, though. The question is whether you had the help or got the assistance of anybody in doing anything that led you to write the expert report, like, you know, to convert the database to a different format or figure out how to use your SQL tool --
Q -- to look at the database, you know, any stuff like that.
A I understand your question.
A There is one gentleman named Brad who is with BVS, and he was retained by plaintiff counsel to convert your client's production of RAM disk to an IBM compatible format that from what I understand just simply was an output of registers from your production.
Q Does he have a last name?
A Yes. And the correspondence in its entirety is on that flash disk under the E-Mails folder.
Q Essentially is the way it worked that the defendants or Sunview produced some electronic data. Brad Stone got the electronic data, did something to it so you could use your SQL tool on it, and gave you whatever he did so you could use your SQL tool on it, and that's what you did. Is that the sequence of events?
A No. The sequence of events is that your client uses a computer system I believe called an I Systems AS-400 IBM type of system. I'm hired as a database analysis expert. An AS-400 is not a typical type of data that I run into because most clients will output a format that is a little more completely file type consistent with, with modern Windows systems.
Q Okay. So essentially --
Q -- to cut to the chase here, what you got from our client for electronic data wasn't something you could run a Windows system based SQL tool on; right?
Q So you had to do something on it to run your SQL tool on it through Windows; right?
A Right. And my understanding is he took 100 percent of your registers. They are called registers for whatever reason. I don't -- I'm not hired to be an AS-400 expert.
A But in the AS-400 world there is something called registers, and those registers were output to comma separated value export per Sunview's specific instructions and directions to Brad, who then provided Mr. Mallison's office with the completed export.
A And that's what I worked on.
Q Okay. So you referred to -- what you worked on was what you say was export given to you by Brad Stone through Mr. Mallison's office; right?
A I worked on export -- I worked -- I worked on data provided by defendant that had been converted in its entirety by Brad Stone so that I could utilize my SQL Query Analyzer on that data.
Q Okay. Did you try to use your SQL analyzer data tool on the original data that Sunview gave you or did you ever get the original Sunview data? That's two questions, and it's a bad -- so that's pretty bad.
A Yeah, that's pretty compound.
A Let's break that up into two separate questions.
Q Did you ever get the original data that was supplied to the plaintiffs' attorneys in this case, the original data?
A Yes. I did review it with Mr. Mallison present and stated that it seemed like it was in a format that could be only read by an AS-400.
Q Got you. So would it be fair to say that you did not analyze the original data Sunview produced in this case, but you analyzed converted data given to you by Mr. Mallison's office that you understand was converted by Mr. Stone, and you think Mr. Stone did it right?
A Well, I'm not opining as to whether or not Mr. Stone did one thing or another. The data as represented by Sunview was on a DVD RAM disk which I do not have the facilities to read. I'm a SQL expert. I'm not a DVD RAM expert.
So what did do you when you figured that out?
A I was specifically asked for that data to be converted to a CSV format.
A Comma separated value format so that I could use my SQL analyzer on that.
Q Okay. And were you -- it's not your job and you are not expert in analyzing that data to a CSV format, so you had somebody else do it; is that accurate?
A No, that's misstating my testimony.
Q Okay. State it correctly. I don't want to --
A So I was very specifically given a DVD RAM by your client, Sunview. I asked Mr. Palau, who works for Mr. Mallison, Mr. Mallison's office, to ask Sunview to output the data in a CSV format so that it was it's called cross-platform compatible. Your client said that we -- and I mean that by saying plaintiffs' counsel needed to find somebody to conduct that activity on their behalf. For whatever reason, that's what your -- that's what my understanding is of what was told to plaintiffs' counsel.
Q All right. You know that because that's what Plaintiffs' counsel told you; right?
A That is what plaintiffs' counsel told me is that we would need to find someone to convert that data.
Q Okay. So what's your understanding of how that conversion got done? How did it get done?
A Well, I -- a disk was mailed, overnighted to BVS.
A I'm sorry. Brad Stone's company.
A And that converted -- pardon me. The cross-platform compatible data extraction was made available via a zip file that Mr. Stone had extracted from the original disk that was provided.
Q Okay. And then that's what you used. You used that which you got from Mr. Stone to do your work; right?
THE WITNESS: Do we need to wait for tape?
THE WITNESS: Okay. That is what I used.
The comma separated value register extraction from Mr. Stone's company was what I used to import into Microsoft SQL.
Q Okay. It doesn't sound very complicated.
You got the data from Sunview, it was in a format that your SQL tool wouldn't work in, couldn't analyze; right? Isn't that correct?
A Well, you say it doesn't sound very complicated. I don't know what's involved in that process.
Q I'll withdraw the question.
Q I'll withdraw the question.
Q These are the steps. It doesn't seem to --the steps don't seem very complicated, although it was a long story. But anyway, step one, you get some data from Sunview; right? You got some data from Sunview that pertained to --
A Plaintiffs' counsel did, yes.
Q They then hired you as an expert in meal and rest break litigation to analyze it with your SQL tool; right?
A They hired me to conduct an analysis prior to receiving this. But I understand your -- I understand what you're saying, and I think the answer is yes.
Q Look, I don't think it's complicated. But maybe if it is more complicated than this I need to ask you more questions about it.
A Sure, that's fine. I don't mind answering. I'm just trying to be helpful and answer the questions and as explicitly as possible.
Q Plaintiffs' counsel got some employment data or payroll data from Sunview at some point in this litigation; right?
Q All right. You had worked for them before in meal and rest break litigation, right, as an expert?
Q All the time you that did that before you used an SQL tool to do your analysis; right?
Q They hired you in this case; right?
Q You looked at the data that Sunview sent you through plaintiffs' lawyer; right?
A Through plaintiffs' counsel, yes.
Q You determined you couldn't use your SQL tool on the data; right?
A I determined that the format that your clients produced was not IBM ASCII compatible to be able to import into SQL as it was on that DVD RAM.
Q So you asked either -- somebody arranged it, your plaintiffs' counsel, for somebody else to convert the data into a format that could be read with your tool; right?
A With Microsoft's tool, yes.
Q And that's what they did. And they sent you the data when it was converted, and you used your tool to come up with your opinions; right?
A I used the Microsoft SQL tool to run queries against the data that was converted to establish my opinions which are outlined in my expert report.
Q And you don't know what process somebody went through to convert the data to the readable form for your SQL tool. You just know that data arrived, your SQL tool worked, and you did your analysis; right?
A I'm not able to really opine as to what Mr. Stone did to convert the data and how that worked.
Q Right. You don't know what Mr. Stone did to the data to make it convertible to your tool, right, the SQL tool?
A It is my understanding that the data was simply converted in its entirety from AS-400 to an ASCII, A-S-C-I-I, style output and that those instructions were provided to him by your client.
Q Do you know -- did you know whether or not the data produced by Sunview came in two files, ten files, one file? Do you have any idea what format the original data took that you saw?
A It was a 900 and -- I want to say 993 megabyte file called Production. That was it.
Q Did you ever see a file called Registers?
A There are several Register files that I was provided by BVS, but those files -- those files we were -- I was told through plaintiffs' counsel that those files were all within the file called Production on that DVD RAM, but I was not -- I am not able to read AS-400 native file format on a standard PC running Windows.
Q Okay. There are a number of other requests for documents in Exhibit 1. All the other requests from Request 7, Request 8, are all those other documents or electronic data on the memory stick, the flash drive produced by you at this deposition?
A Well, you said all those --
MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object. Vague.
He has got a lot of stuff here.
THE WITNESS: Mr. Molland, you said are all those other requests. Which numbers do you want to refer to? No. 7?
Q Well, let's go through here. We're taking a lot of time with this. I'm just trying to figure out what's in the --
Q Well, who knows, we may have to pay you more money.
Request No. 8 is that on the stick?
A Request No. 7 is on the stick. Request No. 8 is on the stick. Request No. 9 is on the stick.
And I just want to note that when you discuss the charts, the set of charts contained within deponent's report, these charts are just generated from SQL Query Analyzer and cut and paste into Microsoft Word, so there's not a separate file --
A -- containing charts. It's just cut and paste based upon the SQL. So the underlying SQL is there. And so the answer to that is yes, it's there, but not in the manner that you think of a separate set of charts.
A Well, request No. 10 is a -- it's a licensed Microsoft product. So the best way to answer No. 10 is -- well, this is really awkwardly worded.
THE WITNESS: (Reading) The database querying language called SQL.
I put an entire Microsoft SQL backup set on this stick in its own folder so that your client, your expert, whoever you have hired can reconstitute that database in its entirety. That's how I believe that you were ask -- what you were asking for in request No. 10 was the entire SQL database set containing all the data and all the structures as I used the SQL to conduct my analysis and produce my results that I put in my expert report.
Q Okay. With that statement, why don't we go to request No. 11.
A Okay. Request No. 11. (Reading) The tools deponent used in tallying of events.
Q This comes straight out of your report. You say: These are the same tools which I have used in tallying of events --
Q -- in approximately 48 meal and break class action lawsuits.
Q That's in your report. That's what your report says.
A Right. I understand that. It's just that the tools Microsoft SQL Query Analyzer is a product that's licensed that Microsoft makes available to licensees. It is a tool that is very universally available on the Internet and other places. The version I use is the Microsoft official program itself. And so I -- I didn't provide that, but I provided all the SQL and all the statements that somebody could use to get the same results that I did.
Q Okay. And basically it's the same tool you used in all these class action lawsuits?
A Every case that I've worked on.
A I've been working with that tool for 20 years since it first came out in Microsoft SQL 4.2B. So it's been a long time.
Q Request No. 12, the time clock files. Are all the what you refer to as time clock files contained on the flash drive, the memory stick you've produced?
Request No. 13, the particular query written to exclude shifts referred to in your report, is that -- and request No. 13 -- is that in the electronic data you produced?
Q Request No. 14, is that in the electronic data you produced?
MR. MOLLAND: Okay. The next exhibit will be
(Deposition Exhibit 4 marked by the
court reporter.) BY MR. MOLLAND:
Q Before we go on to that. We are trying --I'm trying to open up the electronic data you provided, and apparently we're having some problems.
Q Is there a -- if we wanted to open that up, how would we do that?
A That's the -- that production file, that's the same problem that I had. That's why I had BVS ask plaintiff to convert that file. That's the original file that's produced by Sunview that was on that RAM drive. My computer won't open that file either.
Q Okay. Well, is there anything that you produced to us that the computer can open up?
A This is the -- these are the files -- these files. If you go to the file called -- go to the folder there called Unzipped, please, if I may.
Q So what you're saying is is all the files in -- below the desktop, all the files that you reviewed are in one of these different folders; is that right?
A Yeah, let's open up -- double click on E right there. See if we can -- yeah, let's -- this is a little bit of a different view than I'm used to using. But yes. Data from Sunview, what you were specifically asking me -- if you could do me a favor and click on Data From Sunview on the top there, Mr. Molland.
Yeah, so if you see there something called Original Production Raw.
A Click on that. I think that's the original -- yeah, so do Unzipped. There you go. So that's the file you were just asking me about.
A Now hit the back -- yeah, okay, back button a few times.
Q Well, let's go to the file -- for instance, let's just start with the file that Mr. Stone sent you that you used the SQL tool on. How do I find that?
A Let's go back. Click on "Back" there. That's fine.
A No. You went back too far. There you go. Registers and Decoded. Do you see where it says PR55DLR.zip?
A Double click that. There's your CSV file.
A Yes, that's an -- I'm sorry. This is a field description list. Go down -- I'm sorry. Mr. Molland, let's close this document.
Yeah, that's going to take a long time to open.
Q Is that what Mr. Stone sent you, this CSV file?
A That is a full extraction of the registers that were contained within the Production file, which you couldn't open either.
Q True. But is that file that we're opening now, the CSV file, is that the file you got from Mr. Stone?
Q Okay. That's good. That's all I want to know.
Q All right. We'll play around with this a little bit, and we'll ask you more questions in the afternoon once we feel comfortable with it.
MR. MALLISON: You might want to get a copy of SQL.
Q Did you look at any paper documents other than what is -- what are represented on Exhibit 2?
Q And just so I'm really sure, Sunview has something called daily sheets or daily timesheets, some of which I think are in the possession of plaintiffs' counsel. Did they show you any of those?
A If -- let's look in this -- I want to answer your question very specifically. If you could be so kind as to open up that file, the file folder explorer again. Was it Dale?
THE WITNESS: Okay. If you could open that, and go to the root level which should just be under E, just right there. And there is one file there called -- let's scroll down a little bit. I'm just curious if there is anything here that -- no, that's it. Yeah, I don't -- these are all the PDFs of everything that I looked at.
Q Okay. So anyway, you don't recall anything that would be called the daily sheet or timesheet that was produced by Sunview to plaintiffs' counsel in this case; would that be fair to say? If you recall.
A I believe that I saw one sheet that had some handwritten timesheet notations on it. And I believe it -- the answer is most likely I did not see anything. I'm just thinking about if I saw this in -- let's see here. Did I -- let's go back to that folder again. If I saw something and I received something, it would be in here.
Q You can't recall right now?
A Yeah, I don't think I did. I may have --just the fact that you say that makes me think maybe I did, but I don't think that I saw any time log reports.
Q Do you have any understanding -- well, did you review any transcripts of depositions in this case?
A I have not seen any transcripts of anything in this case.
Q In the past meal and break class action lawsuits you've looked in, have any, to your understanding, been class action lawsuits involving farm workers?
Q Okay. How many? And maybe I could ask the question -- I don't want to -- give me your best estimate how many.
A Well, I don't -- I'm not hired to estimate.
Q Well, give me your best guess, then.
A Sorry. I want to be very careful here. It's amazing how things read in a transcript post deposition, so --
Q To your best recollection, do you think you've been involved in more than five farm worker cases?
Q That's all I really need to know.
And you understand this is a farm worker case, or do you?
A I understand that it involves farm workers.
Q Have you read the Complaint in this case?
Q Do you know what the claims are in this case outside of that they involve meal and break claims?
A I'm typically just hired to analyze sets of data and then asked a series of questions and whether or not I see certain things in the data and to provide a report. So I don't know the specific issues in this case, and I prefer not to.
Q Yeah. Now, but you made certain queries and you wrote a report in this case which is Exhibit 4 that you have in front of you; right?
A Well, the results of the queries are contained within my report of which Exhibit 4 contains the sum of -- the sum of my work product.
Q Okay. How did you determine to do the queries that you did that are reported in your expert report? Are they the same queries that you do in all the farm work cases or were there different queries that you did?
A Well, let's break that down. There's three different questions there.
Q Let's ask the first one.
Q Have you done the same queries that you did in this case and all the farm worker cases that you've had where you've worked for Mallison & Martinez or did you do different ones?
A The items that I'm asked to analyze are uniform in both their approach and methods. The queries that I ran here are no different in the underlying timings of shifts than any other farm worker case that I've worked on. There are specific things that I was asked to conduct SQL queries or tallies of.
A There is an attorney named Mr. -- is it Tom Lynch? Is that one of the attorneys?
Q Anybody else ask you to do something?
A There is a Mr. Steve Hernandez. Mr. Marco, M-a-r-c-o, Palau, P-a-l-a-u. P-a-l-a- -- yeah. And there is a Mr. Stan Nelson.
Q Okay. What did they ask you to do?
A Well, they asked me to conduct tallies of events that are evident in defendant's data and the daily work time and piece-rate reports per specific pay codes and pay types.
Q When you worked for Mallinson & Martinez, had you done the same analysis of the record that you've received from them in preparing your expert reports in other meal and break class action cases?
A Let's ask that again to make it a little more clear. I'm sorry. I want to be really --
Q In other cases where you've been retained by Mallison & Martinez have you done the same analysis of the data that you did here?
MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object on work product grounds based on to the extent that he served as a consultant and not a testifying expert. But you can answer with regards to testifying expert.
MR. MOLLAND: Fair enough.
THE WITNESS: The structure of the queries, the methods, the procedures are uniformly applied in all cases.
Q All right. That was my question.
A There's -- I just want to say one thing, though, about that, that there is data specifically and uniquely structured in your data. For instance, your pay code 630 or 631 for vacation may not be the same pay code that's used in another case, so accommodations and in SQL structure may be applied using different pay codes and pay types. But the underlying principles, the overall structure of the queries is the same in every case.
Q Let's turn to your report, to Exhibit 4. First you determined the number of shifts for all employees; right?
A Are you looking at a specific paragraph?
Q Yeah, paragraph 16 where you start discussing your -- you say: My findings are as follows. I'm just picking the first one. Your first finding was the number of shifts that you analyzed from the records, right, the data?
Q Is that something you do in all your meal and break class actions you analyze, you first determine the number of shifts?
Q Okay. Then you determine the number of employees that appeared. Is that something you do in all your meal and break class actions?
Q Then you determine the length of the shifts. Is that something you do in all your meal and break class actions?
Q Then you determine the number of employees experiencing shifts of a certain length. Is that something you do in all your meal and class actions --all your meal and rest break class actions?
Q And then you went through in sections D, E and F and determined the number of shifts that were over five, six and ten hours; right?
Q Is that something you do in all your meal and break class actions?
Q On page 5, then you report your other findings. Do you see that?
Q You determine the number of shifts that occurred within a work day when the number of hours were worked less than 2 hours in a work day. Is that something you do in all your meal and class -- excuse me -- meal and rest break class actions?
Q And then you determined how many employee shifts numbered less than 4 hours in a work day. Is that something you do in all your meal and rest break class actions?
Q Then you determined the number of shifts where employees were paid exclusively piece-rate work during the time they work. Is that something you do in all your meal and rest break class actions that are farm worker actions?
MR. MALLISON: I'm going to object on the same grounds of work product based on that he's talking about consulting. So if we can limit it to testifying expert.
MR. MOLLAND: I do. I will.
THE WITNESS: If there is a piece-rate only shift that is self-evident in data, I will analyze that and create a chart for that.
Q And then you went on to determine how many employees were not paid minimum wage; right?
A Which paragraph are we talking about here, Mr. Molland?
Q Well, certainly 20. It looks 21.
Q All right. Is that something you do in all your other cases in which you are a testifying expert for meal and rest break class actions?
A That involve piece-rate work?
A Well, the minimum -- 20 and 21 talk about two different things. I mean, you look at straight pay, you look at -- you look at -- I mean, minimum wage is something that I analyze in every case I've ever worked on.
Q Good. That's all I'm asking.
And then you determined the number of shifts where Sunview reported over 10 hours. Do you see that?
Q Why did you do -- why did you do that, do you know?
A The query in 24 was specifically asked for by Mr. Mallison.
Q I understand that. But why did you -- do you understand why you did it? And you may or may not.
A Well, I am -- I am not hired as an expert in what is classified as what should be at paid overtime or not. So the area that you're asking me to opine in is -- mine it's more of a anecdotal than fact stating. I don't know why in a farm worker case overtime is more than 10 hours versus in a restaurant where it's more than 8 hours. I just -- I don't know why the laws are or the rules are the way they are.
A But I'm just simply running a query that I'm asked to do in every farm worker case.
Q And it's your understanding that anecdotally this relates to overtime, but you don't really understand why; fair?
A I don't know why the rules for farm workers are a certain thing versus retail establishments. If that's what you're asking me --
Q But all I'm saying is in Category 24 you understand generally this analysis you were doing was relating to overtime, but you don't understand why it was relating to overtime; correct?
A Well, I assume it was because overtime wasn't paid.
Q Fine. And that's your understanding of the work you were doing under paragraph 24; right?
A I understand that when I'm asking to look at amount of hours worked where there is no overtime evident that that's overtime that's not paid, and attorneys want to know that.
MR. MALLISON: Can we take a break in a few minutes when it's convenient?
MR. MOLLAND: Sure. Of course. Absolutely. Any time you want to take a break, let me know that.
MR. MALLISON: Too much coffee. BY MR. MOLLAND:
Q Since you have generated your report -- and I can't remember now. I have to look at this. I think it was April 23rd, but I'm not sure. April 18th. Since your report on April 18, 2011, have you done any work in this case?
A May I see my billing timesheets?
A I think that will let me know. So you're asking after which date?
Q After you wrote your report.
THE WITNESS: On April 20th I was with Mr. Steve Fernandez in Encino. I was down there for other matters, and I had some time between appointments, so I stopped by to say hello and to work with him on reviewing my report. He had a question about minimum wage, the same question you asked me about -- about, what is it, paragraphs 20 through 22, and we reviewed them, but I did not produce any work product, nor did I reach any conclusions.
Q Let me just ask you a simple question. Have you done -- have you formed any different opinions since you wrote your report --
Q -- that are not in your report? Is that correct?
A I have no new opinions that are not contained within this report that I produced.
MR. MOLLAND: Then we can take a break.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Off the record at 11:33 a.m.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Back on the record at 11:49 a.m.
Q Okay. Mr. Woolfson, what I would like to do is now go through your report which you have it as Exhibit 4 and see if we can sync it in or tie it in to the electronic data that you produced so we know with respect to the electronic data what you're referring to in your report. That's going to be the objective. Hopefully we can get it done before lunch, but we have 40 minutes, let's try.
Let's start on page 2, please. The first sentence says: Daily work time and piece-rate reports have been provided as IBM AS-400 backup set called production.zip. Can you show us on your electronic data where those -- what you refer to as daily work time and piece-rate reports reside?
A Sure. This is in the Data From Sunview folder. The reports provided by Sunview are in a file called Production that appeared on the DVD RAM.
A That was converted by BVS. There's companies that I use as part of my course of work typically where you run into a situation where you are asked to analyze data that you're not -- you're not -- that aren't in native format to the platform that you're running it on. There's companies like Brad's company that will do that.
Q So the production -- what's called production.zip accords to what's called original production?
Q Or that accords to the file called Production. Is that right?
Q Okay. And by the way, have you ever spoken to Mr. Stone about the conversion?
Q What have you talked about?
A I asked him if there was any additional information that he needed from me to convert the data. And he said that he would speak directly with Mr. Mallison's firm. And I guess -- I assume he probably spoke with co-counsel since there are some e-mail threads.
Mr. Stone was referred to me by somebody who has used him before in data conversion. Mr. Stone's list of clients are pretty extensive. And I let Mr. Mallison's firm make that determination as to whether they wanted to use him.
Q All right. So other than that one conversation you haven't talked to Mr. Stone about what he did; right?
A The only conversation I had was with him regarding the output format, if comma separated values which would have been a direct translation from your original data would be sufficient. And I said yes.
Q Okay. Then you refer to files provided named PDFs of payroll reports showing checks, check numbers and earnings for each period. Where are they on the disk?
A In a folder called Registers and Decoded.
Q And there are three files in that particular file; right?
A You have registers.zip, registers 2.zip and PR55DTLR.csv, respectively.
Q Are those converted files?
A They are the resulting files from BVS that contain original registers in CSV or PDF format, respectively.
Q Is that something Mr. Stone provided to you?
A That is something that is an extraction of data from your original Sunview data that Mr. Stone provided. So I understand it to be a direct conversion.
Q And is the PR55DTLR.cvs file -- where is that in the data?
A The CSV file is under the folder called Registers_and_Decoded.
Q When you did your queries with the SQL tool, what file did you use to do those queries on?
A The PR55DTLR.csv file is imported into Microsoft SQL 2008 Release 2. The queries, the SQL language itself is actually run against the Microsoft data that contains the original CSV file.
Q Okay. Did you use the SQL queries in any way on the PDFs of payroll reports showing employees, check number and earnings for each period?
A The PDFs were looked at but are not in a format that can be used with SQL.
Q What use, if any, in your report did you make of the PDFs of payroll reports?
A The PDFs as I have been told by counsel, of which conversation was noted on page 3 of invoice 1103000068 which is marked as Exhibit 3. These notes are from a conversation where I was specifically told that the PDFs contained the data that was in the PR55DTLR.zip file -- I mean .csv file. Pardon me. And that those PDFs reflected what was in the data, the registers, directly.
Q That wasn't my question. My question is, what use, if any, did you make of the PDFs of the payroll reports that are under 9 A in your report?
A I did checking of the PDFs to see if sums of hours and wages appearing in the CSVs were contained within the detail of the CSV file.
Q How did you check them?
A I reviewed the CSV data and then looked for individual items appearing within the PDFs themselves. Now, I -- so these are -- these values here that you see on the screen are contained -- oh, that's the noon bell.
THE WITNESS: On Tuesday. I forgot.
The data that's contained on these PDFs is as a result of the CSV or a compilation of the CSV files that contain the details. And this was told to me by the Sunview -- I don't know what to call the people --IT people? These are the notes for that conversation. BY MR. MOLLAND:
Q Did you talk to Sunview IT people?
A I believe they were on a conference call regarding the production of data at some point.
Q My question is what use in your opinion in your report, in your conclusions did you make of the PDFs of payroll reports? You said you checked them. I'm asking -- my question is how you checked them, what checks you did, if you did any, between the PDF of payroll reports and any of your other work?
A Well, what I'm saying is that this file was represented to me as -- hear me out. You're asking questions, and I want to be very specific.
Q I am asking a question I'd like you to answer, which is just what use did you make of it. You may have been told a lot of stuff, I don't know, but what use did you make of the PDF payroll reports? Did you make any use at all?
A The PDFs are not in a SQL compatible format.
Q Could you please answer my question. Did you make any use of the PDF reports? Yes or no. If you did, then I'll ask you what you did. If you didn't, then we can move on.
Q I know what they are, okay?
A Well, the PDFs have been spot-checked against the CSV file --
A -- to confirm that the data was on these checks that was in the CSV files.
Q Okay. Did you make any other use?
Paragraph 10: "I processed the PR55DTLR.csv file using Microsoft SQL to create a set of charts." What charts are you referring to in paragraph 10?
A The charts that are illustrated in paragraphs 16, 17, paragraph 18 of my declaration.
Q Paragraph 12, it says: "Sunview produced time clock files." What -- can you show me the time clock files that Sunview produced on the memory stick, please? What file are they in?
Q You refer to them as time clock files. What does time clock files mean to you?
A In this case, the number of hours, the pay code, the block, the classification of, of work whether its hourly or piece-rate, the number of hours worked, pay rate.
Q Okay. You're just referring to the category of code. My question, though, you refer to something called a time clock. To me a time clock is a clock. Did you just use that loosely to mean these are time records?
A Oh, I don't use anything loosely in here.
Q Where is the clock? What would a clock file be to you?
A A clock file would be a ledger of hours worked and the amount of time that was paid or not paid, the hourly rate where the employee worked, the type of work they did, what job category they were working, what block, what ranch or location.
Q Okay. I think I understand. I get it. So you're referring to -- what you were just referring to is the different categories of information that are in PR55DTLR.csv, and you call those a time clock file; right?
A Actually, that's what counsel calls it.
A That's why I refer to it as the time clock file.
I have to hold this until the end of the deposition to make sure you come back from lunch.
THE WITNESS: I'm thinking about it.
Q You say that that, the file -- when you're referring to time clock file what you're referring to is the 55DTLR.csv file; right?
A Right. And that's the specific language that your client used when they spoke of this was a timecard file.
A So timecard file, I asked what was in it.
And they explained to me that it was the time clock file. So that's what I've called it. But that's also what Steve Hernandez and Tom Lynch refer to it as.
Q Then, in paragraph 12 there is a box and in it there is a SQL statement. Can you tell me what that is?
A Four points connected by lines. You have to be more specific is what I'm getting at.
Q Paragraph 12, is what you're saying is that you used a SQL statement to come up with the information that there were 7 billion and change rows of data and 7,997 employees, that conclusion was based upon a certain SQL statement which is in the box below on paragraph 12. Is that the way that works?
And this goes on to say: "Select distinct reference from work data." What -- is there a particular file where work data is, resides or is?
A Now you're getting into the part I love.
Q Good. I'm glad that I'm making your heart beat faster.
Q Maybe you can speed up a little bit. We'll put you on faster than the clock speed.
MR. MALLISON: More coffee.
THE WITNESS: Well, I've been told by, let's see here, four of the five last transcriptionists or court reporters that I speak too fast, so I'm trying to be more articulate.
MR. MOLLAND: You're breaking no records today.
THE WITNESS: Well, let me explain a little bit about the structure of how SQL works. SQL is a big -- it's a big bucket of data. It's a big bucket of your data. Work Data is a table name that I use where I put all of the work days that an employee is present and the data. And I group it by employee number which I call reference.
Q Okay. Is there a place in the electronic data you produced to us where the work data is?
Q And can you identify it, please?
A Microsoft SQL 2008 Release 2 Database. This is the backup set. If you were to restore this to a database restore point, you would see all of my work product, you'd see all of the SQL tables that the data is contained and you would see your data in the tables. One is called Raw Data. One is called Work Data.
Q Can you do that simply by opening up that file?
A I wish I could. This would require Microsoft SQL 2008 at least 2 to be ...